Duvel Clone/belgian Golden Ale

[gibbocore]

Hi y'all,

I'm going to put this one down next week some time and would like some thoughts before i do so.
I'd like to come out dryish like a duvel so i've mashed at 65, but beersmith hasnt lowered the Fg, thoughts?

Also i plan on racking onto the candi sugar once i hit about 1022.
Would a protiene rest help with the pils? If so does anyone kno what water addition calculations to use, ie, mash in thick and add remaining boiling water after 20 mins?

Please feel free to pick this apart.

Type: All Grain
Date: 6/08/2008
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Brewer: Gibbo
Boil Size: 31.39 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (7.5 gal) and Cooler (48 qt)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.00 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 72.3 %
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 12.0 %
0.30 kg Aromatic Malt (51.2 EBC) Grain 3.6 %
40.00 gm Northern Brewer [7.60%] (60 min) Hops 24.6 IBU
30.00 gm Styrian Goldings [2.70%] (20 min) Hops 4.0 IBU
20.00 gm Saaz [4.00%] (10 min) Hops 2.4 IBU
1.00 kg Candi Sugar, Clear (1.0 EBC) Sugar 12.0 %
1 Pkgs Belgian Strong Ale (Wyeast Labs #1388) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.080 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 0.000 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019 SG Measured Final Gravity: 0.000 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.0 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.0 %
Bitterness: 31.0 IBU Calories: 0 cal/l
Est Color: 11.6 EBC Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body Total Grain Weight: 7.30 kg
Sparge Water: 8.42 L Grain Temperature: 22.2 C
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C TunTemperature: 22.2 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 19.04 L of water at 73.0 C 65.0 C 75 min
Mash Out Add 12.18 L of water at 95.5 C 75.6 C 10 min

If this is in the worng forum, lemme know, cause i have 2 more for sccruitiny.

Cheers.

 

[barls]

here is the one that i did recently. just for comparison

Selected Style and BJCP Guidelines
18D-Belgian Strong Ale-Belgian Golden Strong Ale

Minimum OG: 1.070 SG Maximum OG: 1.095 SG
Minimum FG: 1.005 SG Maximum FG: 1.016 SG
Minimum IBU: 22 IBU Maximum IBU: 35 IBU
Minimum Color: 3.0 SRM Maximum Color: 6.0 SRM


Recipe Overview
Wort Volume Before Boil: 12.00 l Wort Volume After Boil: 10.20 l
Volume Transferred: 10.20 l Water Added To Fermenter: 10.80 l
Volume At Pitching: 21.00 l Volume Of Finished Beer: 20.00 l
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.054 SG Expected OG: 1.080 SG
Expected FG: 1.012 SG Apparent Attenuation: 84.0 %
Expected ABV: 9.2 % Expected ABW: 7.2 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 25.0 IBU Expected Color (using Morey): 5.1 SRM
BU:GU ratio: 0.31 Approx Color:
Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Duration: 60.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 18 degC


Fermentables
Ingredient Amount % MCU When
UK Pale Ale Malt 3.000 kg 51.7 % 3.6 In Mash/Steeped
Extract - Light Dried Malt Extract 2.000 kg 34.5 % 2.4 End Of Boil
Sugar - White Sugar/Sucrose 0.800 kg 13.8 % 0.0 End Of Boil


Hops
Variety Alpha Amount IBU Form When
Slovenian Styrian Goldings 4.5 % 22 g 12.1 Loose Pellet Hops 60 Min From End
Czech Saaz 3.0 % 22 g 8.1 Loose Pellet Hops 60 Min From End
Czech Saaz 3.0 % 27 g 4.8 Loose Pellet Hops 15 Min From End


Other Ingredients
Ingredient Amount When
Whirlfloc Tablet 1 In Boil


Yeast
Wyeast 1388-Belgian Strong Ale

Step Type Temperature Duration
Rest at 66 degC 75
Raise to and Mash out at 78 degC 15

 

[gibbocore]

how'd it come out?

 

[gibbocore]

Also, did you get 84% on your yeast? Wyeast reckons they only get 74-78%.

 

[mika]

Firstly, yep, right spot for recipe queries.
Secondly, tThe brewing software you're using should be able to help you out with water additions for Protein Rests (Promash - Mash designer, though it is a tad complicated), whether it's worth it or not will come down to the individual taste. I'd recommend doing a regular infusion mash this time round and second time trying a Protein rest and then working out for yourself whether you figure it's worth the hassle.
Third, where are you getting Aromatic Malt ? Didn't realise anyone in Australia was carrying it ?
The belgian yeasts are big strong attenuators, so te WYeast guidleines (which is really all they are) need to be taken with a pinch of salt. The sugar in there will be more easily consumed by the yeast and so will probably push your attenuation a little further than what the manufacturer recommends.
Having said that, once Yeast has chewed on sugar it's not that crazy about malt anymore, so beers with high portions of sugar can stall out and there is a train of thought that recommends feeding the sugar to the beer well into fermentation to prevent stalled fermentation. How you keep this sanitary I'm not quite sure, I haven't brewed a beer that big with that much sugar in it. The ~1050-1060 beer I did with sugar fermented out without an issue.
You're going to want to fire that yeast up with a big healthy starter too, 1pck of yeast ain't enough for a 1080 beer. Fermentation wise, keep it under 20 for the first couple of days and then as it gets along a bit, pick that temp up slowly to say 22, for the last couple of days a brief burst of 24 won't hurt either. This should ensure it doesn't stall and that you get the most out of the Belgian yeast. Goodluck !

 

[barls]

its sitting in the secondary at the moment tastes alright though need aging. as for the % on the yeast thats what my brew program has it at. it comes out pretty close to that. i stuffed up a bit and my batch started at 1.072 and its at 1.013 at themment

 

[gibbocore]

Cheers for the reply.

Should have added a few bits. The reason for protien resting this time round ia because i'm a little worried about mashing in too hot with this one as i want to make sure it stays dry. I guess i could always just aim a degree lower and keep some boiling water handy when mashing in. personally i'd be just as happy single infusion mashing.

I've seen belgian aromatic at ESB before in 1kg bags. I take it the equiv is Melanoiden?

For sugar feeding, there are a couple of reasons i'm keen on doing this, one is because i've heard it can reduce alcohol warming and two for the reasons you've stated, to make sure the yeast chews through the malt first. Plan is to ferment down to about 1020ish boil up about 500ml of water, melt the candi sugar and pour it into a sanitized fermenter, rack onto this, as if i were bulk priming. Glad wrap and away she goes (hopefully).

Not to worry about starters, i'm big on big starters, i'm an anxious brewer wich means two things, i like my beer ASAP and i like the knowledg that i'm pitching a big healthy colony.

Cheers.

 

[gibbocore]

its sitting in the secondary at the moment tastes alright though need aging. as for the % on the yeast thats what my brew program has it at. it comes out pretty close to that. i stuffed up a bit and my batch started at 1.072 and its at 1.013 at themment

nice one. do you think there would be anything you'd change?

 

[barls]

only me getting it right next time and getting full conversion and extraction. ill let you know as it ages. btw this the second time for this recipe the first was wrong yeast and i scorched it as well. giving it a nice smokey flavour and a trappist style

 

[gibbocore]

cheers!

Does anyone think i'll have any balancing issues with the grain/hop bill i've got?

 

[Stuster]

cheers!

Does anyone think i'll have any balancing issues with the grain/hop bill i've got?

I think if you're aiming for a Duvel beer, then keep it simple. No need for the melanoidin/aromatic, especially not that much, it'll make it too dark and it might not end up dry enough. I think you could cut back those late hop additions a fair bit.

I'm with mika. Single infusion will be fine. You could even cut it back to 64C.

For comparison, this is what we did as our club brew last year. Crozdog went on to win the Belgian category at the state comp with his cube from this one using 1388. It was a parti-gyle brew and we did a Belgian blonde with the second runnings. I think if you're using Wey Pilsner then no need for the Vienna, or at least far less.


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: ISB Party Tripper
Brewer: Stuart Upton
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Golden Strong Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 150.00 L
Boil Size: 190.55 L
Estimated OG: 1.074 SG
Estimated Color: 7.6 EBC
Estimated IBU: 29.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
30.00 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (3.Grain 72.29 %
6.00 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 14.46 %
260.00 gm B Saaz [6.70 %] (60 min) Hops 24.8 IBU
70.00 gm B Saaz [6.70 %] (30 min) Hops 5.1 IBU
5.50 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (2.0 EBC) Sugar 13.25 %

 

[sinkas]

Duvel starts at about 16C then is gradually rasied to 26-27 over about 5 days, if you dont do this your beer will taste more like the Ardennes yeast, Oh and a big hunk of yeast is needed too.

 

[gibbocore]

Awesome stuff, cheers guys.

I do like vienna, i'll leave it out this time round though and try it next time.
Will drop the aromatic also.

Cheers again.

revised

Type: All Grain
Date: 6/08/2008
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Brewer: Gibbo
Boil Size: 31.39 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (7.5 gal) and Cooler (48 qt)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.00 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 71.4 %
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 14.3 %
40.00 gm Northern Brewer [7.60%] (60 min) Hops 26.9 IBU
20.00 gm Styrian Goldings [2.70%] (20 min) Hops 2.9 IBU
10.00 gm Saaz [4.00%] (10 min) Hops 1.3 IBU
1.00 kg Candi Sugar, Clear (1.0 EBC) Sugar 14.3 %
1 Pkgs Belgian Strong Ale (Wyeast Labs #1388) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.068 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 0.000 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.006 SG Measured Final Gravity: 0.000 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.1 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.0 %
Bitterness: 31.0 IBU Calories: 0 cal/l
Est Color: 7.8 EBC Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body Total Grain Weight: 6.00 kg
Sparge Water: 12.68 L Grain Temperature: 22.2 C
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C TunTemperature: 22.2 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 15.65 L of water at 71.8 C 64.0 C 75 min
Mash Out Add 10.01 L of water at 97.4 C 75.6 C 10 min





Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 18.26 L of water at 71.8 C 64.0 C 75 min
Mash Out Add 11.68 L of water at 97.4 C 75.6 C 10 min

 

[Stuster]

Looks nice, gibbocore. :beerbang:

Make sure you've got enough yeast. Making a smaller beer before hand is a good way I find.

 

[trevc]

What about using extra pale pilsner instead of the wheat. Would that help?

Duvel seems pretty dry and light coloured.

 

[gibbocore]

The wheat is just for big duvel cumulo nimbus head, and not much else really. The candi should help it along. I was just looking at a pic of duvel on a coaster i've got and its closer to a pils golden than a pale yellow i reckon.

Cheers for the help guys.

 

[Jazman]

Evil Golden Strong ale

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 24.00 Wort Size (L): 24.00
Total Grain (kg): 7.50
Anticipated OG: 1.08228 Plato: 19.842
Anticipated EBC: 7.7
Anticipated IBU: 31.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 0 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
73.3 5.50 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 317.420 4
16.7 1.25 kg. Cane Sugar Generic 386.000 0
6.7 0.50 kg. JWM Wheat Malt Australia 334.126 4
3.3 0.25 kg. Weyermann Vienna Germany 317.420 7

Potential represented as IOB- HWE ( L / kg ).


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
30.00 g. Styrian Goldings NZ Pellet 5.70 20.2 60 min.
15.00 g. Nelson Sauvin Pellet 12.70 7.6 20 min.
20.00 g. Saaz B Pellet 7.00 3.3 10 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II

 

[tdack]

I've just kegged a Belgian type beer that I made from one of Dave's Home Brew stove top kits. It tasted really nice out of the fermenter as it was bubbling away. Started at around 1.072 and made it down to 1.014 after 10 days @ 18 degrees.

Now it's in a keg, how long should I leave it for before gassing and drinking? I'm really keen to try this one but don't want to start on it too early.

 

[trevc]

Hey Jazman, I'm pretty sure wyeast 1388 is the Duvel yeast (or at least the most similar). I've used it before, and it results in awesome beer.

Both brews I did were partials. The last one we named "Lucky 13" (13% ish ABV!). I fed it dextrose doses over a week to help get it up there, then aged it for as long as possible. It's surprisingly drink-able.

Any idea where 1762 originated? So many interesting belgian yeasts out there to try.

 

[Stuster]

trev, apparently the 1762 is the Rochefort yeast. Never used it myself. So many yeast, so little time. :icon_cheers: