Like pumpy i am a pom who does not mind a nice lager. Mine have been modified kits and not nice. Could you post some recipes of your best lagers foustar? You seem to be very knowledgable and helpful on this subject.
Pumpys is spot on how i'd go about a german lager, see my previous recipe noted in this thread. Zwickel could shed some light on the subject too!
I had never brewed a light lager (or a lager at all) until going all grain. Personally i believe kit lagers are not up to scratch on the malt flavour/aroma side of things. Especially considering the malt aromas are usually non existant and consequently effect the flavour of the malt profile as well. To brew one with kits i would definitly go for doing a partial mash or atleast a big steep of carapils to try and get some of the malty/husky/grain aromas going to bulk up the kit.
If you must go a kit, id be looking at getting a Fresh Wort Kit and some extra LME or DME to sub it out to the correct OG. Water profile is critical to making a german pils or any light lager as the flavours can be delicate and faults stand out like dogs balls!
For a German Pils you NEED gypsum in it, it isn't the same otherwise, you want a drying beer with firm/crisp bitterness. For a Czech you need to keep the water as soft as possible (well atleast the sulfate) for rounded hop profile and malty balanced beer.
The only issue i have with the FWK is you dont know what their water profile was at the time of brewing, i guess the same thing goes for a tin of goo too! Consequently you could go over the top with water additions.
My favourite lager ive brewed was my Munich Helles, im due for another soon. Adapted form the Brewing Classic Styles recipe. Next time i will up the CaCl to help push the malt profile a little more and drop the chalk i added to the boil, its simply not needed.
For a Helles I'd go for a water profile with: Ca 100ppm~, Cl 150ppm~, SO4: 50ppm~ and everything else low. Here it is anyway.
Cheers! :icon_cheers:
Helles
Munich Helles
Type: All Grain
Date: 14/04/2009
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Braden
Boil Size: 30.90 L
Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.0
Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.00 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) Grain 92.6 %
0.30 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 5.6 %
0.10 kg Melanoidin (Weyermann) (30.0 SRM) Grain 1.9 %
35.00 gm Hallertauer [4.80%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 20.7 IBU
0.50 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
2.00 tsp Chalk (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Munich Lager (Wyeast Labs #2308) Yeast-Lager
Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.0 %
Bitterness: 20.7 IBU
Est Color: 4.5 SRM
Mash Profile
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 15.12 L of water at 71.9 C 66.0 C 60 min
Mash Out Add 9.00 L of water at 93.9 C 75.6 C 10 min
