Do Yourself A Favour Brew A Real Beer A German Pilsner !

[Ragmans Coat]

Fourstar is contributing. not like you other mingers. He should work for a brewery

 

[brettprevans]

End rant.

ill have to pull you up there mate....you didnt type 'begin rant'

fellas, I too have much more appreciation for water chemistry since reading all the extra bits and peices on it. its something that probably wont miss untill youve started doing it. or the differance between 4th and 1st in a compitition

 

[warrenlw63]

End rant.

Haha Promise? :huh:

Warren -

 

[WitWonder]

Considering majority of the east coasts water supply is rather low in mineral content and alot of brewers are using rain water its quite easy to commment on someones adjustments. Worse so if it wasnt low in minerals imagine adding 20g of CaS04 to a water profile already laden with 100ppm Ca and 150ppm SO4. :unsure: It probabaly wouldnt be all that pretty on the palate, unless you like drinking dry chalky or astringent beer.

My biggest interest (not gripe) was the 300 odd ppm of SO4 in the beer and what kind of profile it has given the final product. Its not a bad thing ro to be taken as a negative comment. Its within an acceptable range (for bitters and IPAs) just wanted to know what effect it has on a delicate beer like a pilsner. Personally i would never invision going above 150-200ppm in a German pils.

Fortunatly for those who drink my beer I don't consider water treatment to be a 'bit of a ****' when it contributes to 90 odd % of your beers make-up.

Some think water adjustments are useless and it doesnt do much for the profile but the proofs in the pudding. I think so, and most of all I CAN taste the difference, not to mention the added benifits it has on wort pH and hop utilisation amoingst other things.

You can brew a good beer without water additions but its very hard to brew excellent beer in a wide range of styles, consistently without it.

End rant.

I don't disagree with your comments fourstar, but in relation to that last sentence IIRC Asher has just one his third straight amatuer brewing title and I don't believe he does much in the way of water treatment, except filtering.

 

[Fourstar]

fellas, I too have much more appreciation for water chemistry since reading all the extra bits and peices on it. its something that probably wont miss untill youve started doing it. or the differance between 4th and 1st in a compitition

Good thing that the BJCP course covers it, you honestly dont know the benifits of water modification until you start doing it correctly (not just in the mash) instead ofjust dumping sulfate here and bicarbonate there or mere 'guesswork'. I'm glad i asked the water master about Dorts at the course CM2 as i have been tempted to add some carbonates in the boil for one. I dont think i'll be going in that direction now. A simple bulk up of Ca in the boil via CaCl and CaSO4 seems the best direction to take.

 

[AndrewQLD]

ill have to pull you up there mate....you didnt type 'begin rant'

fellas, I too have much more appreciation for water chemistry since reading all the extra bits and peices on it. its something that probably wont miss untill youve started doing it. or the differance between 4th and 1st in a compitition

Water chemistry and the use of salts for adjusting has made a huge difference to my brewing, I was fascinated by John Palmers talk last year at the ANHC and spent quite a bit of time reading as much as I could on the subject over the following few months.
A few successes this year in the comp department along with my own testing of brews with and without additions has led me to be a firm believer in the benefits you can gain from this (fairly) simple procedure.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Fourstar]

Haha Promise? :huh:
Warren -

Only for a short while! Or do you want me to quantify that one as well?

I don't disagree with your comments fourstar, but in relation to that last sentence IIRC Asher has just one his third straight amatuer brewing title and I don't believe he does much in the way of water treatment, except filtering.

For a start, filtering/carbon treatment is one of the best thigns you can do if you do not add salts. It can be very benificial especially for stripping out chlorine. I dont know what WAs water profile/s are like and/or the styles Asher likes to brew. They may be within a specific Colour and IBU spectrum. Once again sorry, can't comment on that one. If he doesn't do any water treatment and is getting good results, it means he is good at what he does. With water adjustment, he could probabaly still be adding a few extra poitns to his flavour scores by doing it.

Im not sure what WA is like but Vicbrew had 400 odd entries, 36 in the pale ale category. I can bet my bottom dollar water modification or the "correct water profile" for the style was used in atleast 1/3-1/2 of the top 7-10 beers in that category. Also not a 5~ point score per judge (out of a aggregrate of 150) was the difference between 1st and 10th place As CM2 noted, water modification can be the difference between 1st and 4th place in a big competition and especially for the nationals.

 

[brettprevans]

I made this German pils about a year ago.

no mash schedule Tony.

im still waiting on Tony's mash schedule

 

[mika]

I don't disagree with your comments fourstar, but in relation to that last sentence IIRC Asher has just one his third straight amatuer brewing title and I don't believe he does much in the way of water treatment, except filtering.

Not quite true, talk to the man. I'm sure he'd be happy to divulge his method.

 

[randyrob]

Not quite true, talk to the man. I'm sure he'd be happy to divulge his method.

He also mashes facing mecca..WWAD!

 

[Fourstar]

He also mashes facing mecca..WWAD!

Hahaha.

classic.

 

[matho]

ok some of you lager guys might be able to help, the only thing that is stopping me doing lager's is getting the wort to pitching temp
i have a counterflow chiller that gets the wort to about 4 deg of the tap water which at the moment the tap water is about 14deg.
how do you guy's get the wort down to pichting temp do you have better chiller's or do you put the fermenter in a temp controlled fridge until it is a the right temp then pitch?

your advice would be greatly appreciated

cheer's matho

 

[Fourstar]

how do you guy's get the wort down to pichting temp do you have better chiller's or do you put the fermenter in a temp controlled fridge until it is a the right temp then pitch?

Answered it yourself. I cube my beer, pop the cube and yeast starter into the fridge overnight, the next day i transfer to the fermenter, decant excess wort/beer from the starter, rouse and pitch yeast at fridge temp, close the lid and forget about it for a fortnight!

 

[AndrewQLD]

That's pretty much it matho, I cool through my plate chiller, up here that's down to about 20 and then into the fridge for few hours to get it down to pitching temp.

Andrew

 

[matho]

thanks for that ive been wanting to do a lager for a while now but didn't know if that was a good way of doing it

cheer's matho

 

[Asher]

I'm on the same mission as Fourstar..... To brew the lowest EBC (I just completed the BJCP exam and am struggeling with my units...) lagers possible. Hell! its what got me into AG in the first place.

My water chemistry cupboard consists of a bit more than replacement carbon filters.
CaSO4
CaCL
Sodium Met
Ph 5.2
Citric Acid

I haven't had a great deal of time since last years ANHC to get my head around Chloride to Sulphate ratios etc. and their importance. Currently using the Dr Kurts rule of thumbs for most of my adjustments. But am under know doubt that water plays pivotal role in perfecting beer styles.

The next step on my brewing ladder..

Asher



Kinda nice to read some informative stuff from a thread started by Pumpy

 

[Fourstar]

I'm on the same mission as Fourstar..... To brew the lowest EBC (I just completed the BJCP exam and am struggeling with my units...) lagers possible. Hell! its what got me into AG in the first place.

If you want to bounce ideas areound, you know where the PM button is

 

[Ross]

Well there you go - 2 of the best home brewers in the country both adjusting water profiles

You can make good beer without, but there's no doubt IMO that it's a critical element in making the best beer possible.

Something I need to pay a little more attention to.

Cheers Ross

 

[Fourstar]

Something I need to pay a little more attention to.
Cheers Ross

You sell the stuff but dont use it/often! As they say "Shame Shame Shame"

Got the filter, yeast and CaSO4 safe and sound today Ross. Giving her a test run on my keg of Hargreaves Hill inspired ESB with before and afters. Interested to see the final result!

Cheers!

 

[mje1980]

Considering majority of the east coasts water supply is rather low in mineral content and alot of brewers are using rain water its quite easy to commment on someones adjustments. Worse so if it wasnt low in minerals imagine adding 20g of CaS04 to a water profile already laden with 100ppm Ca and 150ppm SO4. :unsure: It probabaly wouldnt be all that pretty on the palate, unless you like drinking dry chalky or astringent beer.

My biggest interest (not gripe) was the 300 odd ppm of SO4 in the beer and what kind of profile it has given the final product. Its not a bad thing ro to be taken as a negative comment. Its within an acceptable range (for bitters and IPAs) just wanted to know what effect it has on a delicate beer like a pilsner. Personally i would never invision going above 150-200ppm in a German pils.

Fortunatly for those who drink my beer I don't consider water treatment to be a 'bit of a ****' when it contributes to 90 odd % of your beers make-up.

Some think water adjustments are useless and it doesnt do much for the profile but the proofs in the pudding. I think so, and most of all I CAN taste the difference, not to mention the added benifits it has on wort pH and hop utilisation amoingst other things.

You can brew a good beer without water additions but its very hard to brew excellent beer in a wide range of styles, consistently without it.

End rant.

You either misread my post, or turned it around to suit yourself. I have no problem with water adjustment, most of my beers have water adjustments made, but i dont criticise other people's water adjustments, especially those who, like i said, live in a different state to me. THAT'S what i find to be a ****. But, hey take it how you want to.

Cheers