Disappointing Wyeast 3068 Result

[NickB]

Hi All,

Brewed a HefeWeizen a few weeks back, and it's been fermening away nicely over the past week. The beer did spend approx 3 weeks in a no-chill cube. This is the first time I've used a liquid yeast

Under pitched approx 1/3 of a smack pack of Wyeast 3068 yeast, and it had approx 36 hrs lag time (at around 19C), after which the ferment went feral, and tried to climb out the fermenter (luckilly I only managed around 19L!).

With my fairly poor temperature control (fermenter box and gel packs), I managed to keep the ferment at approx 21-22C for the duration, and I was happy as I was pushing for more Banana in the beer.

Bottling time rolled around today, and it has reached FG of approx 1.008. But, no Banana. I'm not sure how to describe the taste. I hear the word "clove" thrown around a lot, but I don't have the faintest what clove tastes like. It kind of has a slight "plasticy" taste too it....

It's got me stumped, as I tried my hardest to get that Banana in there, but apparently to no avail.

Only two things come to mind: 1. that this yeast doesn't really produce a huge amount of Banana, or 2. When I was attempting my first step-mash with this beer, I missed big time... Doughed in at around 43C, then went to step up to 64C. Missed by miles, and the beer had an approx 15 min rest at around 50C, while I was heating additional water.... Could this be the cause?

Anyway, went ahead and bottled, and chucked a few litres into my party-keg. Will have to see how it fares over a few weeks.

But yeah, can anyone shine some light on what the problem may be? I'm dying to try the new Fermentis dried wheat yeast as well....just to see if I can get something a little tastier....

Cheers

Edit: And to top it off, I now find that the starter I cultured up from the rest of the pack, smells like rotten eggs....this isn't normal for this yeast is it?

 

[Tony]

I just kegged a batch of Weissbier made woth this yeast.

I mashed at 65 to 66 deg and mash out at 72 odd and pitchec a smack pack into 50 liters.

It went mad and spent 3 days climbing out of the firmenter at 21 deg.

I kegged it and it has lots of bannana. all i could taste actually.

I have found this yeast mellows out a bit with a few weeks conditioning and is very nice.

Not sure of your plastic character :huh: Sounds sus to me.

Test will be in the glass.

I have primed mine in the keg to naturally carbonate to rey to get the full effect of yeast character in the beer.

Its up to 80 KPA in the keg already

cheers

 

[Screwtop]

Hi All,

Brewed a HefeWeizen a few weeks back, and it's been fermening away nicely over the past week. The beer did spend approx 3 weeks in a no-chill cube. This is the first time I've used a liquid yeast

Under pitched approx 1/3 of a smack pack of Wyeast 3068 yeast, and it had approx 36 hrs lag time (at around 19C), after which the ferment went feral, and tried to climb out the fermenter (luckilly I only managed around 19L!).

With my fairly poor temperature control (fermenter box and gel packs), I managed to keep the ferment at approx 21-22C for the duration, and I was happy as I was pushing for more Banana in the beer.

Bottling time rolled around today, and it has reached FG of approx 1.008. But, no Banana. I'm not sure how to describe the taste. I hear the word "clove" thrown around a lot, but I don't have the faintest what clove tastes like. It kind of has a slight "plasticy" taste too it....

It's got me stumped, as I tried my hardest to get that Banana in there, but apparently to no avail.

Only two things come to mind: 1. that this yeast doesn't really produce a huge amount of Banana, or 2. When I was attempting my first step-mash with this beer, I missed big time... Doughed in at around 43C, then went to step up to 64C. Missed by miles, and the beer had an approx 15 min rest at around 50C, while I was heating additional water.... Could this be the cause?

Anyway, went ahead and bottled, and chucked a few litres into my party-keg. Will have to see how it fares over a few weeks.

But yeah, can anyone shine some light on what the problem may be? I'm dying to try the new Fermentis dried wheat yeast as well....just to see if I can get something a little tastier....

Cheers

Edit: And to top it off, I now find that the starter I cultured up from the rest of the pack, smells like rotten eggs....this isn't normal for this yeast is it?

My fav yeast, in my experience building up a 2L starter by stepping 1L to 2L and pitching 1L (keeping the other 1L for another brew) and fermenting at 22 produces fantastic Banana esters. A rest above 40 (Ferulic acid rest) will increase clove esters, so maybe dispense with this step if looking for banana and bubblegum. The Banana is an aroma dimension not a flavour/taste (to me anyways) unlike the clove which contributes a definite flavour to the beer. Once your party keg is carb'd pour one, you should be able to detect the banana without sniffing the beer. Have repitched onto this yeast up to 4 times but found the banana reduced with repitching, maybe your yeast was not fresh, check the best by date. It will still be great.

Screwy

 

[NickB]

I just kegged a batch of Weissbier made woth this yeast.

I mashed at 65 to 66 deg and mash out at 72 odd and pitchec a smack pack into 50 liters.

It went mad and spent 3 days climbing out of the firmenter at 21 deg.

I kegged it and it has lots of bannana. all i could taste actually.

I have found this yeast mellows out a bit with a few weeks conditioning and is very nice.

Not sure of your plastic character :huh: Sounds sus to me.

Test will be in the glass.

I have primed mine in the keg to naturally carbonate to rey to get the full effect of yeast character in the beer.

Its up to 80 KPA in the keg already

cheers

Well it doesn't taste of plastic as such, but I don't know how to describe it... It may be cloves....but I dunno, buggered as to why I don't have Banana.... Might have to see if one of my fellow Sunshine-Coasters can give it a try and let me know.... anyone?

 

[Screwtop]

Well it doesn't taste of plastic as such, but I don't know how to describe it... It may be cloves....but I dunno, buggered as to why I don't have Banana.... Might have to see if one of my fellow Sunshine-Coasters can give it a try and let me know.... anyone?

Could be up that way tomorrow for lunch!! So long as Gympie Tce is above water, are the Farmers Markets Off?

 

[NickB]

Don't know about the farmer's markets, I can only assume they're off... The footy is off due to the ground being half flooded last I heard... And I think Gympie Tce is still pretty dry... was when I left for work this arvo, and haven't heard from the Girlfriend who is supposed to be keeping me posted if anything changes...

Unfortunately I'll be at work until 4:30 tomorrow, but I've only just bottled them up anyhow.

 

[Screwtop]

Don't know about the farmer's markets, I can only assume they're off... The footy is off due to the ground being half flooded last I heard... And I think Gympie Tce is still pretty dry... was when I left for work this arvo, and haven't herd from the Girlfriend who is supposed to be keeping me posted if anything changes...

Unfortunately I'll be at work until 4:30 tomorrow, but I've only just bottled them up anyhow.

Bugga, we often spend a lazy couple of hours at Gusto's by the river, have been working on them to lift their game and stock some good beers.

Screwy

 

[NickB]

Bugga, we often spend a lazy couple of hours at Gusto's by the river, have been working on them to lift their game and stock some good beers.

Screwy

Nice work! Once I get my stocks back up you'll have to pop in one weekend for a brew or two!

 

[Weizguy]

50C rest would affect protein haze, which is to decrease it = good.

At 43C you have produced the precursor (ferulic acid) to 4-vinyl guaiacol (which is a medicinal tasting, perhaps plasticky flavoured organic molecule).

64C is prob a bit cool/low for a weissbier, and 66C is better for the right body.

As to where the banana went, I have a thought:

How sure are you about your thermometer? If it's a stick-on fermentor thermmo, you may have been increasing the temp on the outside of the fermentor, but in the middle it was quite a few degrees cooler. This would favour the phenolics over the esters (banana). Otherwise, if the thermo has not been calibrated, then you may be reading inaccurate temps with it.

Another thing is that if your fermentation is not open, that may affect the flavour...or if the bubbling is severe - a lot of the esters can be "scrubbed" from the beer.

W3068 should be good enough as it's the main yeast used in Germany for weissbiers. There can be no better recommendation.

Can you provide your recipe, as it may aslo help.

Don't give up on wheat beer, they are your Summer friend, as well as a Winter companion.

Beerz
Seth

 

[Screwtop]

50C rest would affect protein haze, which is to decrease it = good.

At 43C you have produced the precursor (ferulic acid) to 4-vinyl guaiacol (which is a medicinal tasting, perhaps plasticky flavoured organic molecule).

64C is prob a bit cool/low for a weissbier, and 66C is better for the right body.

As to where the banana went, I have a thought:

How sure are you about your thermometer? If it's a stick-on fermentor thermmo, you may have been increasing the temp on the outside of the fermentor, but in the middle it was quite a few degrees cooler. This would favour the phenolics over the esters (banana). Otherwise, if the thermo has not been calibrated, then you may be reading inaccurate temps with it.

Another thing is that if your fermentation is not open, that may affect the flavour...or if the bubbling is severe - a lot of the esters can be "scrubbed" from the beer.

W3068 should be good enough as it's the main yeast used in Germany for weissbiers. There can be no better recommendation.

Can you provide your recipe, as it may aslo help.

Don't give up on wheat beer, they are your Summer friend, as well as a Winter companion.

Beerz
Seth

All of what he says

Especially :

Don't give up on wheat beer, they are your Summer friend, as well as a Winter companion.

To my great surprise, the wife's family (mostly traditional megaswill drinkers) have been asking when I will have that "Banana beer" available again. I introduced them to it last summer, didn't take much to swing them, their favourite was my Roger Watson (Roggen Weizen) wheat and rye. It is a summer fav here, great for the Sunny Coast lifestyle.

Screwy

 

[NickB]

50C rest would affect protein haze, which is to decrease it = good.

At 43C you have produced the precursor (ferulic acid) to 4-vinyl guaiacol (which is a medicinal tasting, perhaps plasticky flavoured organic molecule).

64C is prob a bit cool/low for a weissbier, and 66C is better for the right body.

As to where the banana went, I have a thought:

How sure are you about your thermometer? If it's a stick-on fermentor thermmo, you may have been increasing the temp on the outside of the fermentor, but in the middle it was quite a few degrees cooler. This would favour the phenolics over the esters (banana). Otherwise, if the thermo has not been calibrated, then you may be reading inaccurate temps with it.

Another thing is that if your fermentation is not open, that may affect the flavour...or if the bubbling is severe - a lot of the esters can be "scrubbed" from the beer.

W3068 should be good enough as it's the main yeast used in Germany for weissbiers. There can be no better recommendation.

Can you provide your recipe, as it may aslo help.

Don't give up on wheat beer, they are your Summer friend, as well as a Winter companion.

Beerz
Seth

Well my thermometers are cheapies, so they probably aren't the most accurate, however the two that I have, both read the same (different models).

Will post the recipe either tonight or tomorrow - I'm currently at work on my laptop, and the recipe is on the desktop at home....

As for the temp, I may have been aiming for mid 60's....Can't remember off the top of my head... I ferment with glad-wrap over the fermenter, and boy was it bulging when the ferment took off...this could be an issue I guess...

Certainly not giving up on the wheats....In fact, have a simple "summer" weizen in a no-chill cube, just waitng for me to grab some of that new wheat yeast off Rossco... Going to split the batch actually, as I only have 25L fermenters, and don't want to be cleaning the carpet.....! I love a good weizen, for sure, but I'm not sure if I'm gonna get what I'm looking for...time will tell I guess!

Cheers

 

[tangent]

my rule of thumb for wheats is 43C-64C-70C with a mashout
the yeast is a dry hungry yeast but a dry finish is perfect IMO.
i never bother with a protein rest unless i care for a clear beer and unmalted adjuncts.
you never said what your mash regime is...?
pitch cold and warm up later. i like to pitch at 16C and end at ~22C.

 

[Screwtop]

Kegged a Zwickel Weizen today, pretty much the same mash schedule as Tangent, tried the new dried Weizen yeast, went from 1.047 to 1.007 in 7 days @ 16 - 18. Has been cold so couldn't get it to 22, very clovey and dry but happy with the North German style, that's what I was aiming for. Have some 3068 in readiness for a Bavarian Style banana weizen soon, summer's not far off.

 

[///]

The Iso-Amyl Acetate (Banana ester) is pretty volitile in my experience. I had the same experience, 50l of liquid banana's crawling out of the fermenter and after 8 weeks in the bottle it all went by the way side with a pretty plain profile.

Scotty

 

[NickB]

Oh well, time will tell on this one I guess. Screwtop has kindly offered his services to test a bottle once they are carbed. I'll be "testing" his Zwickel Pils... Thanks again Mike!

Cheers