Counter Flow Chillers

[vlbaby]

g'day guys,
I have been using a CFC since day one of AG brewing and it has been on my mind for while that maybe the cold break that obviously enters the fermenter might be diminishing the quality of the beer. I always end up with a considerable amount of cold break at the bottom of the fermenter so I was wondering if other brewers were racking the wort of the cold break before pitching or just leaving it. The reason for asking is I think racking is a PITA and i would rather just convert to an immersion chiller if thats the case.
Any thoughts?

VL

 

[dreamboat]

I use am immersion chiller, but here in Brissy, that is generally only good enough to get the wort temp down to around 30C. While I will get some break in the kettle, I usually put my fermenter straight into the fridge, without yeast, for 6 hour or more, then transfer and aerate into another fermenter, and pitch then.
I always leave a stack of crud behind in this process.



dreamboat

 

[fraser_john]

I also use a CFC to cool my wort down, and yes, I get a lot of trub in the fermenter! BUT....I use a conical fermenter, so I let it sit for about an hour after entering the fermenter, so the trub can settle, then just open the dump valve till the wort runs clear, close the valve, aerate it and pitch. No racking!

 

[Gough]

I use am immersion chiller, but here in Brissy, that is generally only good enough to get the wort temp down to around 30C. While I will get some break in the kettle, I usually put my fermenter straight into the fridge, without yeast, for 6 hour or more, then transfer and aerate into another fermenter, and pitch then.
I always leave a stack of crud behind in this process.



dreamboat

[post="103161"][/post]​

I use a really similar process to this. In mid summer I get my wort to around 26-28 with my immersion chiller and then down to pitching temp in my brewfridge. I tend to brew at night and by the next morning I'm usually ready to drop and aerate to another fermenter and then pitch. Gets the beer nice and clean. Obviously there are infection risks with this method but so far (fingers crossed) so good... Might be worth a try

Shawn.

 

[Ross]

I use am immersion chiller, but here in Brissy, that is generally only good enough to get the wort temp down to around 30C. While I will get some break in the kettle, I usually put my fermenter straight into the fridge, without yeast, for 6 hour or more, then transfer and aerate into another fermenter, and pitch then.
I always leave a stack of crud behind in this process.



dreamboat

[post="103161"][/post]​

I just attach my immersion chiller to a bildge pump that's immersed in a tub holding 25L of chilled water straight from the fridge & recirculate. This drops the final 10c in no time at all...

cheers Ross

 

[neonmeate]

i've always thought if only i had a magic temperature wand, 99% of the hassle of brewing would vanish...

 

[warrenlw63]

Bulk buy?? :unsure: h34r:

Warren -

 

[T.D.]

I've had a similar problem getting the temps much below 26degrees with my immersion chiller. I think my chiller is also a touch on the small side - I reckon I could probably do with as much as double the length of copper pipe as I currently have. Anyway, I have been tossing up the idea of making a new chiller and keeping my old one to submerse in a tub of ice. Then run the water through that on the way to the bigger chiller in the wort. Should get the temp of the water entering the wort chiller down quite a bit.

 

[warrenlw63]

T.D.

Ross's idea of the pump in the ice slurry/cold water bath is a more efficient one. This is what I use. You can get your wort down to pitching temps of 17-18c in summer and about 14-15c in winter. Usually takes about 30-45 minutes after switching off the tap water.

Also helps to carefully stir/agitate your wort while immersion chilling to speed up the process too.

I've tried the pre-chiller bath and always found it to be fairly inefficient.

Warren -

 

[Asher]

I was wondering if other brewers were racking the wort of the cold break before pitching or just leaving it

I just leave it in the fermenters. Most of it ends up being deposited on the walls in the krausen line anyway.... Cold break is a protien coming out of solution al lower temps (I think?). therfore it will stay out of solution and settle out at the end of fermentation c/cing anyway...

Asher for now

 

[T.D.]

I was wondering if other brewers were racking the wort of the cold break before pitching or just leaving it

I just leave it in the fermenters. Most of it ends up being deposited on the walls in the krausen line anyway.... Cold break is a protien coming out of solution al lower temps (I think?). therfore it will stay out of solution and settle out at the end of fermentation c/cing anyway...

Asher for now

[post="103210"][/post]​

That's the way I have always approached the "cold break in the fermenter" issue. Even though I use an immersion chiller I think I end up with quite a bit of it in my fermenter. Basically this is because I always try and get every last drop of wort out of my boiler into the fermenter, which usually involves some (if not most) of the cold break going in too. That's the way I have always done it so I have little to compare it to, but I have always been pretty happy with the beer that I end up with at the end...

 

[T.D.]

T.D.

Ross's idea of the pump in the ice slurry/cold water bath is a more efficient one. This is what I use. You can get your wort down to pitching temps of 17-18c in summer and about 14-15c in winter. Usually takes about 30-45 minutes after switching off the tap water.

Also helps to carefully stir/agitate your wort while immersion chilling to speed up the process too.

I've tried the pre-chiller bath and always found it to be fairly inefficient.

Warren -

[post="103199"][/post]​

Thanks for the tip Warren. I have taken to stirring the work around the chiller while it cools - I have found it reduces the cooling time by quite a bit. I usually carefully stir until it gets below around 40degrees, then I do it more vigorously. That way I have already begun to oxygenate the wort before it goes into the fermenter.

 

[mikem108]

I use a CFWC and the One time I bothered to let the cold break settle out in one fermenter before transferring into the second fermenter it made no difference to the subsequent clarity or flavour of the beer, I just transfer to secondary after a week now.

 

[berapnopod]

I also use a counter-flow chiller. My normal operation is not to bother about the cold break in the fermenter. I have even heard that its good for trace elements and goodies that the yeast need.

I once did an experiment where I brewed 40 litres of Koelsch and split the wort between two fermenters. One fermenter I added yeast straight away after chilling. The other I left for 24 hours, racked off the cold break and then added the yeast. As far as fermentation went, I could see no difference, other than a 24 hour lag. Temperatures were kept constant (within a degree) for the entire primary fermentation at 14C in the basement, so no differences there either.

I did numerous taste tests with other people. The conclusion was that the one with the cold break was preferred. I thought the one with cold break had a more pronounced hoppy flavour and bitterness, which may well be because there was significant hop debris in the cold break. The one without did have a slightly smoother malt flavour to it, but it just didn't seem to work so well in that recipe. Perhaps something like a bock or O'fest would have benefitted more from cold break removal.

So, as I said, now I just leave the cold break in every time.

Berp.

 

[tangent]

interesting thread
i add most of the crud hoping for a bit more flavour- especially as the flame out hops don't seem to be in the wort long before it's in the fermenter
i just don't tip the fermenter when i rack. i think it's 3-4litres left under the tap.

 

[Tony]

I have an emersion chiller perminantly mounted in the kettle.

I just hook up a hose and away she goes. I always stir it around when cooling too as mentioned, it speeds up the process.

I tend to get about half the cold break in the firmenter and leave about a liter in the kettle. I cant bear to make all thet beer just to tip out 4 liters cause of some protein that will settle out anyway.

I have clear beers and no flavour difference between if i leav it out or let it in the firmenter.

to be honnest i am starting to doubt the need for irish moss.

I have forgotten to put it in 3 beers last year and all of them were bright clear, it just took a bit longer to clear out is all.

cheers

Tony.