Cold Break

[rosswill]

I am having problems draining my boiler due to (what I assume is) cold break. Some background:

I do AG. Use a 50L pot with no tap. I transfer to the fermenter using a racking cane. I boil for an hour, and add a teaspoon of Koppafloc at the last 15 minutes. I chill useing an imersion chiller, which takes about 25 minutes. I whilrpool after chilling and wait (up to) 30 minutes before transferring to the fermenter.

The problem I have is that, what I assume to be cold break, will not drop, but remains suspended in the wort. It looks like fluffy/cloud like material. The hops (pellets) and hot break seem to sit in a cone at the bottom of the boiler like it is supposed to, but the cold break just floats about 5 cm above the bottom, and eventually blocks up my racking cane.

I usually make 25 L batches and I can drain about 18L of clear wort into my fermenter before the cloudy cold break starts to get sucked up. There is still way too much wort left in the fermenter to just leave our use as a starter. I have tried straining with such things as stainless steel scrubbies, but they just block up.

I end up running the remaining wort through a hop sock, but the break immediately blocks up the mesh, but it does eventually drain out and I get my 25 litres of wort. This handling is both time consuming and the extra handling is just asking for an infection (none yet, touch wood)

I understand getting some cold break into the fermenter is not such a bad thing, but the whole lot?

So, is there a way to get the cold break to drop, or do I just ignore it, get a larger diameter racking cane (or fit a tap) and just suck it into the fermenter and ignore it?

Surely everyone who chills has this issue? How do you deal with it? Looking for advice to make my brew day a little easier.

PS, I don't know if it is my imagination, but I seem to be getting a whole lot more cold break than I used to. I am trying to think if I have changed my process.

 

[RdeVjun]

A right royal PITA, by the sounds, rosswill. Could be a long shot, but your source water hasn't changed at all? Do you add any salts other than Koppafloc? Some waters can be problematic in getting decent flocculation happening, I normally use rainwater but adjust with '5.2', gypsum, chalk, bicarb etc.
Hoping you can sort it out! :icon_cheers:

 

[crozdog]

ignore it. it won't hurt your brew.

 

[Screwtop]

Whirlpool.................look it up sometime!


Screwy

 

[Bribie G]

I no chill and get a fair amount of cold break developing in the cube overnight but pour it all in and it doesn't do any harm AFAIK. Some brews are a bit too big for the cube and I can glean a couple of litre Schott bottles extra and by the morning they look like you could use them to make a lava lamp

However I can imagine that the stuff could cause havoc with racking etc. Have you considered going to no-chilling? Having said that I realise you have paid big bucks for your current chilling gear of course.

Edit: just another thought, why not just run the chilled wort straight into the fermenter? Also I don't know if you have ever read this but, on the Coopers Home Brew website:

Should I boil the kit to remove break?

We brew beer, malt extract and home brew worts in the same way. All worts are boiled and produce hot break which is then removed in the whirlpool. Rather than being cooled down for fermentation, the malt extract and home brew worts are centrifuged and transferred to evaporators where all but around 20% of the water is removed. At this stage the malt extract and home brew is packaged then cools down but does not throw cold break material because the extract is too dense for it to precipitate.

Once you add water, the wort becomes thin enough for the break material to precipitate. This break material is completely harmless to the brew and will settle out during fermentation.

 

[WarmBeer]

Whirlpool.................look it up sometime!


Screwy

Proofreading.............look it up sometime!

No offense intended Screwy, but in his second paragraph says he does whirlpool.

For what it's worth, I reckon just transfer everything, including the cold break into the fermenter, it'll all settle out into the trub during fermentation. As some people have suggested, it can even be beneficial to the fermentation process. It's certainly not stopping certain no-chill Biab individuals from brewing award winning beers.

Cheers

 

[rosswill]

Thanks for the replies guys.
I kinda thought I was being over sensitive about dealing with the cold break. The folk who run the wort through plate or counter flow chillers straight into their fermenters must be also putting all their cold break into it.

One of the replies reminded me I am now doing something different, I am now putting the 5.2 ph stabiliser into the mash. I wonder if that is creating more cold break than before? I can't see how?

 

[Thirsty Boy]

could be the 5.2 - formation of both hot and cold break is effected by the pH of the wort.

Don't worry about cold break - you could try as hard as you liked to remove it and you still most likely wouldn't be able to. The particles of cold break are so small that they take literally hours to settle out in any meaningful way. Pretty much everybody is transferring the greater proportion of cold break into their fermenter - whether they mean to or not.

 

[dr K]

I suspect that Screwy was referring to the fact that Rosswill appears to chill then whirlpool, as oppossed to whirlpool then chill. Most of what you have is in fact hot break. As Thirsty Boy correctly points out cold break takes a lot longer (and btw a lot lower temp). Cold break is fine for your beer, it will not hurt the fermentation and most of it will drop out either during fermentation or when you crash chill after fermentation. Why not just get a tap put on your boiler??

K

 

[marlow_coates]

+1 for leaving it in there.

Have had the same trouble many times, and in an attempt to get as much into the fermenter after chilling have always said "stuff it" and just poured in the fluffy stuff you are talking about.
No detrimental effects as yet.

And unlikely to get any I suppose now that we have gone no-chill to save time on brew day.

It does look crap though seeing all the nice fine clear wort, then these booger like floaties blobbing along.

Also, we never got the whirlpool thing down pat. At then end of boil we whirled it, and got a nice settling of gunk in a cone on the bottom. But when the immersion chiller runs and vibrates around, and eventually needs taking out of the pot, all the stuff just gets mixed up again.
And because we never wanted to let it sit for long at that temp, transfered almost straight away to fermenter and pitched yeast.

Marlow

 

[rosswill]

Thanks Thirsty Boy and marlow_coates, I feel a lot better now and will chill (myself) next brew day.

Dr K, as you no doubt know, with an immersion chiller (read copper coil hooked up to a garden hose) it is a waste of time whirlpooling before chilling as you need to swirl the chiller in the hot wort to cool efficiently. If you don't, it takes twice as long, and uses twice as much water. Accordingly, you need to whirlpool after chilling. But your are right, I think I will now just get a tap on the boiler and not bother about trying to separate the cold break.

Just out of interest, I will leave out the 5.2 stabaliser next batch and see if it changes the amount of cold break.

Anyhow, thanks all, I have the answer to my question.

 

[hazard]

Thanks Thirsty Boy and marlow_coates, I feel a lot better now and will chill (myself) next brew day.

Dr K, as you no doubt know, with an immersion chiller (read copper coil hooked up to a garden hose) it is a waste of time whirlpooling before chilling as you need to swirl the chiller in the hot wort to cool efficiently. If you don't, it takes twice as long, and uses twice as much water. Accordingly, you need to whirlpool after chilling. But your are right, I think I will now just get a tap on the boiler and not bother about trying to separate the cold break.

Just out of interest, I will leave out the 5.2 stabaliser next batch and see if it changes the amount of cold break.

Anyhow, thanks all, I have the answer to my question.

For what its worth - I follow similar process to you, chill with an immersion chiller, whirlpool, rack clear wort to fermenter. But as you point out, this does leave a lot of wort behind, so I am in habit of pouring the last few litres through a kitchen strainer into the fermenter (which sort of defeats the whole purpose of whirl pooling and carefully racking clear wort). Even a relatively coarse strainer quickly clogs up due to the hops residue, so I can see that you would have big problems trying to strain with steel wool. I've seen hop strainers on a few of the web sites of our sponsors, and I can't imagine how they strain hops without clogging up immediately (anybody care to comment?).

Regardless of the break going in, I manage to finish up with relatively clear beer through use of gelatine finings and cold conditioning before bottling. However, I am always happy to try new approaches and your thread also got me thinking of another possible solution, which I read about somewhere, don't know if this will work, would appreciate some thoughts:
1. Rack clear wort to fermenter, stop when racking cane starts to pick up trub.
2. Pitch yeast as soon as possible
3. Pour last few litres of wort into another vessel, leave for a few hours (more if required?) for trub to settle, then decant clear wort off trub
4. Maybe want to boil this wort again to kill any bacteria it may have picked up
5. Cool and add to fermenter

I hate leaving good wort in the kettle, has anyone tried this approach?

 

[marlow_coates]

Hazard, it sounds feasable / feasible? (spelling).

Depends on whether or not the break will settle with time, and then stay settled while you decant.
If you pour what remains after clear wort is added to fermenter, into a sanitised jar or bottle, then refridgerated to let eveything drop out, then decanted into fermenter, I can't see any issue with this.

However, given the effort and time, for what I can only see as minimal benefit (if any at all) I would not bother.

Marlow

 

[hockadays]

Thanks Thirsty Boy and marlow_coates, I feel a lot better now and will chill (myself) next brew day.

Dr K, as you no doubt know, with an immersion chiller (read copper coil hooked up to a garden hose) it is a waste of time whirlpooling before chilling as you need to swirl the chiller in the hot wort to cool efficiently. If you don't, it takes twice as long, and uses twice as much water. Accordingly, you need to whirlpool after chilling. But your are right, I think I will now just get a tap on the boiler and not bother about trying to separate the cold break.

Just out of interest, I will leave out the 5.2 stabaliser next batch and see if it changes the amount of cold break.

Anyhow, thanks all, I have the answer to my question.

Look up Jamils whirlpol chiller this could be of help. A way to get the cold break off is to transfer the lot except hot break to a fermenter. Chill overnight to 4degc if making a lager then most of the break will have settled then rack to another fermenter and pitch yeast. Works for me. I only worry about it though for lagers as they show faults more.