Cider Advice

[Haiper]

Hi again all.

Well I put my first batch of lager in the bottles yesterday and was pleasantly surprised at how good it seems to be turning out. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck etc etc. I used carbonation drops so I might go and invert the bottles again today just to make sure it's all mixed as the little lollies were plonking up and down in the bottles even after 4 or 5 inversions yesterday.

My reason for this thread is that I went to my local HBS shop yesterday and bought myself 30 more PET bottles and a can of Blackrock Cider as my wife will actually drink it...hopefully. I'm not a massive beer drinker and she doesn't drink it at all. I'll make a Keineken type of beer later on as I LOVE that.

The lovely lady at the shop said she does 50l batches of Blackrock and loves it. She recommended using white sugar which I went and bought. She reckons it's much better tasting than the usual dextrose/brew sugar. I've read some other threads in here and it seems a 2l bottle of apple juice mixed in is the order of the day so I might shoot down to the shop and pick up a bottle. I'm going to do pop it in the barrel later today or tomorrow (barrel is still sanitising), so any advice from people who have had success with cider would be appreciated. Oh, and I've made a blow off valve because from on here it seems most people have had the foam coming out of the airlock (just like in my first batch of lager, and I don't want that mess again).

Is white sugar fine?
Is putting apple juice in the fermenter tastier than just the straight kit mix?
Optimal temp 20deg?

Cheers all.

B)

 

[brettprevans]

do a search for cider and you'll find a heap of cider recipes using tins, all bought juice, all real fruit, combinations of the 2 etc. white sugar/table sugar is fine as it gives a cidery taste anyway when fermented.

If you use bought juice, use ones that have no preservitives. Fresh will generaly taste better than tins. But I havent brewed a cider yet so I can comment from personal experiance. just what Ive read.

 

[phonos]

Hi Haiper,

I've used white sugar in a ginger beer and that turned out fine - I can't imagine it causing any problems with a cider brew either.

I've never tried putting apple juice in a cider, but some people swear by the mixed apple/pear juice. Apparently the pear makes it taste a little more like strongbow cider

20 degrees is a good temperature to use for a cider.

Also, I doubt you'll need the blow off tube for this kit - ciders tend not to ferment particularly quickly - but it doesn't really make much difference what you use to seal your fermenter, your blow off tube will work just as well as a standard s type airlock. Also, since ciders don't ferment quickyl it may be worthwhile checking that the kit comes with some yeast nutrient to make sure it ferments out properly. Its not absolutely necessary, but it helps avoid stuck/slow ferments.

All the best with your brew

 

[frogman]

I have made many batches of Blackrock Cider and all have been good.
Have tried using apple juice and apple/pear juice combo's.

Have gone full circle now I just use can with 2kg white sugar.
Made to 20lt.
1 week in primary
1 week in secondary
Chill at 2deg for 24 hours then keg.

Was a great hit on xmas day here with every one who tried it.
It also went down well at the Qld Xmas case swap in early Dec.

Cheers FROGMAN....

 

[InCider]

Exactly what Phonos & Citymorgue2 said!

The sugar - whether dextrose or white sugar or even brown sugar all works well. Slight change of taste, but it is VERY hard to wreck a cider. Unless you put malt extract in it, then it is practically a snakebite.

I have used fruit juice as well as a kg of sugar - and that is a lot a fermentables as the juice is full of sugar, so you will want to let it ferment for a good week or two at least. Also, I have sliced apples and sat them on the top of the wort, and they float for the whole ferment.

Spices: whack 15 grams of spices to your taste in a hop bag and put it in the wort. Gives your cider a sublte edge.

And the only advice I have is: Let these bottles sit for a couple of months to have them at their best. Or make another batch really quickly and store them in the shed so they end up a few months old. Much nicer & smoother.

Frogman makes great cider, so you may want to send him a PM for his Blackrock recipes. (and beat me to the post! - Nice one )

Cheers,

InCider.

 

[Haiper]

Cheers all.

Frogman, if I pop in 2lt of apple juice, what do you recommend in terms of sugar?? 2kg?? or lower it due to the sugar in the juice?? I was told by the HBS lady to use 2kg to a tin.

Wife just brought me home 2lt of nice clean apple juice so I'm itching to get this lot churning over.

 

[0M39A]

i made up a blackrock cider last year.

was the can, 4lt of apple + pear juice (preservative free) and 1kg of sugar.

turned out that dry it wasnt funny and had hardly any apple cider taste to it.

sorry to piss on your parade, but i doubt i'll make it again. was a real shame, as it tasted awesome in the carboy.

 

[axl]

I use the blackrock cider kits as well.

I use 2kgs of white sugar. 2 ltrs of Apple & Pear juice (Just Juice or Berri) + 1 ltr of rasberry 90% fruit juice cordial (no preservatives).

Bloody nice drop. I start drinking it the following day after chilling, kegging & filtering. Comes out crystal clear too.

A favourite all around.

 

[Haiper]

OK, she's in.

1 x Blackrock Cider kit
2lt rain water
2kg white sugar

Heated water in stainless steel boiler until nearly boiling then added kit and sugar and stirred in.

Popped mix into fermenter then added the 2lt of juice and 19lt of rain water from the tank.

Temp was sitting sweet on 24deg so in went the yeast pack from the kit and sealed up with a blow off tube running into a clean 600ml coke bottle.

It's currently in the coolest part of the house I can find and sitting pretty at 20deg, so we'll see what happens.



Thanks for the advice all.

 

[NRB]

Having never used rainwater for brewing, is it standard practice to add without boiling/sanitising? Municipal water has been treated with chlorine/chloramine to help reduce the number of microorganisms. I still carbon filter and boil any "top up" addition that needs to be made (thankfully incredibly rarely).

Am I being too anal?

 

[frogman]

Having never used rainwater for brewing, is it standard practice to add without boiling/sanitising? Municipal water has been treated with chlorine/chloramine to help reduce the number of microorganisms. I still carbon filter and boil any "top up" addition that needs to be made (thankfully incredibly rarely).

Am I being too anal?

I think you could be right on the money there.
I filter all my tap water before use.
Have a mate who uses tank water and his beers are dam near undrinkable.
Would suggest boiling and cooling tank water before use.

FROGMAN...

 

[Ross]

Haiper,

As others have said, using (untreated) tank water is a big no no. You may be lucky (hope you are), but having lost many a brew in my early days to the exact same problem, i'd never use untreated tank water. It needs to be boiled, or some use a campden tablet - personally, when making kit brews, I used to bring home 30l from friends homes who were on mains water, for brewing.

Cheers Ross

 

[Haiper]

Hmmmm, thanks for the heads up. My first lager looks like it might be a winner though, so I'll have to see. Where I am we can't drink the tap water (east coast of Tas [may as well be a third world country not being able to drink the tap water]), 4 bouts of gastro in 2 years is proof of that.

I'll give the rain water a crack in the cider and see what gives. The tank is brand new and only been set up a couple of months so the water coming out of it is bloody beautiful and clear to drink. If this batch goes tits up, I'll reassess. Thanks for the heads up....you've just given me a nervous two week wait...haha, just kidding. :huh:

 

[0M39A]

Hmmmm, thanks for the heads up. My first lager looks like it might be a winner though, so I'll have to see. Where I am we can't drink the tap water (east coast of Tas [may as well be a third world country not being able to drink the tap water]), 4 bouts of gastro in 2 years is proof of that.

I'll give the rain water a crack in the cider and see what gives. The tank is brand new and only been set up a couple of months so the water coming out of it is bloody beautiful and clear to drink. If this batch goes tits up, I'll reassess. Thanks for the heads up....you've just given me a nervous two week wait...haha, just kidding. :huh:

i'm in burnie, and we're on tank water. never had a problem brewing with it that i can directly attributable to the water. we have a filter attached to the pump though. tastes fantastic

 

[Haiper]

tank water.....tastes fantastic

Amen to that brother.

 

[Sammus]

I was hoping to use 20L+ of real apple juice with a Wyeast Cider yeast, no cans or anything. Any advice on a good place to get bulk apple juice? Just checked the supermarket fridge, and it looks like its $5+ for 2L of 100% preservative free anything juice - not sure if I want to drop $55 on my first cider attempt

 

[Tyred]

Not too sure about bulk apple juice.

I've noticed Aldi has apple juice 2L for around $1.99 most of the time. You may be able to do better when shops have it special.

 

[Haiper]

I was hoping to use 20L+ of real apple juice with a Wyeast Cider yeast, no cans or anything. Any advice on a good place to get bulk apple juice? Just checked the supermarket fridge, and it looks like its $5+ for 2L of 100% preservative free anything juice - not sure if I want to drop $55 on my first cider attempt

If this cider turns out well, I'm really keen to make a press and make my own juice. If you live near any apple orchards, you could approach the owner and ask to pick up some of the windblown apples out of the rows, most wouldn't mind I'm sure (I grew up working in orchards, it's where apple juice comes from anyway, the apples off the ground). Other than that, try buying some apples off the side of the road cheap or just get them from the supermarket on special.

I've seen some awesome simple presses made from hydraulic jacks and cheesecloth with a collection tray underneath. I reckon I could knock one up in an afternoon. The first step though is to pulverise the apples. Your choice how you want to do that. There's some good youtube stuff on pressing fruit.

Another idea is to appraock some of the larger juice manufacturers and ask them if they ever have any left over juice from batches. I know most leftovers after a run go into home brand type bottles for sale but you never know your luck, they might be able to point you in the right direction.

Also, if you have a home juicer, you could plough through some bags of apples (whatever variety you like), and then strain the result through some cheesecloth or similar (it will be cloudy though). Those juicers are pretty awesome at getting the most amount of juice out of something. I reckon you could get a litre of juice out of an old stick with one.

 

[0M39A]

one thing to keep in mind is that its pretty recognized that the best yeast for fermenting an apple cider, is the yeast thats on the skin of the apples themselves.

 

[brettprevans]

I was hoping to use 20L+ of real apple juice with a Wyeast Cider yeast, no cans or anything. Any advice on a good place to get bulk apple juice? Just checked the supermarket fridge, and it looks like its $5+ for 2L of 100% preservative free anything juice - not sure if I want to drop $55 on my first cider attempt

20L of juice will ferment out to a fairly high %alc I would think because its mostly sugar. most cider and lemonade receipes ive seen only call for a little bit of juice for flavour and alc. Im trying to find the last thread I read on AHB with juice receipes. I would think you would only want 10L of juice and 10L water. but of course fresh would be best in that case.


EDIT: strike that, I found the link I was looking for and Im wrong (raspberry cyser thread). still it would be nice to know what the % would be before you breww it so you can adjust accordingly