Cascade

[bum]

Do people not normally brew with a hop bag that could be removed? Why do hops have to "stay" in the boil?

It is not uncommon but it is probably statistically more prevalent that hops go in commando-style - especially for full volume brewing methods (I'd imagine smaller batch brewers do what they can to limit trub losses as much as possible).

It should be noted (and this is a very common misconception I'm adderssing here) that taking the hops out does not effect the timeline discussed here (not that the graph above is completely accurate in all cases, more of an illustrative guide for the rough idea). Temperature/time will continue to work on the acids/oils extracted from the hops even though the hops are no longer there. Removing the hops does have an effect in that no extra acids/oils are able to be extracted but to think that these are locked in when the hops are removed is false.

Partial boils are just as good as full boils

Not exactly - depends how "partial". I think you are correct in that a 3L boil is not as good as, say, as 10L boil. That is not to say that a 3L boil won't improve a beer, of course.

hops "stay" in the boil for longer than you're boiling ...

As mentioned above, they do for many people but even when they don't temp/time remain an issue.

As a side-note, the phrase "partial boil" has been used quite a bit lately and I hope it doesn't catch on. Things will get a bit confusing when people are asking for advice on actual partials.

[EDIT: so many typos!]

 

[slash22000]

Well there you go. I've learned a tonne of new brewing things today that I didn't know yesterday. As soon as I think I have a handle on things .. :huh: Cheers all!

 

[carniebrew]

Well there you go. I've learned a tonne of new brewing things today that I didn't know yesterday. As soon as I think I have a handle on things .. :huh: Cheers all!

Despite some of our best attempts to prove otherwise...that's kind of what this place is meant to be all about eh?

 

[Stuwort]

G'day all. I have put together a K&B blonde and am just wondering if any one has had any success with Cascade and am I going the right way about using Cascade? Here is my recipe:

1 x Coopers Lager
500g Honey (Wescobee red check)
500g LDME
30g Cascade pellets

I have put 300g of LDME in 3L of water, brought to the boil and added 30g of Cascade for 7 min and then turned off, added the honey, stirred and let sit for 5 min. This was starined before being put in the fermenter and I added 5g of the strained cascade to the fermenter as an experiment.

Cheers

Stu

I also failed to mention that I used US05, brewing at 17c and that at day 11, there is still quite a thick krausen/top layer of yeast. Am I correct in assuming this is taking this long to ferment due to the honey? I have given the side of the FV a few whacks with my mixing spoon and have had some fallout, but the wort is now ultra cloudy. My plan is to wait until day 14, cc to 1c for 2 days and bring back up to 17c before bottling.

 

[carniebrew]

I also failed to mention that I used US05, brewing at 17c and that at day 11, there is still quite a thick krausen/top layer of yeast. Am I correct in assuming this is taking this long to ferment due to the honey? I have given the side of the FV a few whacks with my mixing spoon and have had some fallout, but the wort is now ultra cloudy. My plan is to wait until day 14, cc to 1c for 2 days and bring back up to 17c before bottling.

Don't assume that just because you still have krausen that fermentation is still happening. It might be, but your hydrometer is the absolute proof. If your brew is at the expected final gravity, and has stayed there for a few days, she's done, krausen or not.

I've used golden syrup in brews before and it hasn't extended the fermentation time. All my brews with US-05 at 18 degrees have been at final gravity in 7-8 days...but I always leave them be for 2 weeks.

 

[Nick JD]

US05 often finishes with a huge, thick krausen still on top.

 

[carniebrew]

Hop utilisation refers to the isomerisation of the Alpha Acids for bittering. A small boil is fine for extracting aroma...

7 minutes is ideal for Aroma as per the oft posted chart below

This chart, while taking it as a rough guide only, does make the concept of dry hopping interesting...or even flameout additions for that matter. The chart suggests that not boiling hops at all will result in only 10% (or less) of their flavour/aroma being infused into the beer.

I have noticed as my beers age the early up-front big hop flavours and aromas continue to disappear...a lot more so than the bitterness subsiding from the 60 minute addition(s). I'm curious to know how much of this is because of flameout additions and dry hopping....they seem to give an early impression of having a big effect on the beer, but weeks later you can hardly find them in the bottle.

I haven't done a lot of brews with 20 minute additions, and certainly none with 7...but a few with 5 and 10 that would be pretty close anyway (chart shows ~90% for aroma at those times). So I'll adjust a few of my upcoming recipes to include 20 minute additions of hops I'm looking to get flavour from. I'm still having great success with Warrior as my bittering addition in my hoppy beers so won't change that any time soon.

I had a Fat Yak on tap at the pub last week and I continue to be impressed by the amount of hop flavour and aroma there is in that beer. I would love to know how old the keg I'm drinking it from at the pub would be.

 

[Nick JD]

That is a pictorial illustration of the extreme basics of hopping beer, and not a series of lines of connected data points deduced through measurement.

 

[carniebrew]

Fair call...I guess the question is...if you're doing 60, 10 and flameout additions...are you missing an opportunity to impart the maximum available flavour of your desired hop? i.e. if I'm after a pale ale with as big a flavour hit of cascade as I can get, would adding it at 20 minutes (along with other additions) be the best strategy? And can practical examples disprove the suggestion that dry hopping won't impart more than (a very rough) 10% of the hop's flavour in your brew?

I guess what I'm looking for is someone to say they did a number of brews with say 10 and 5 minute additions of their desired flavour hop...and then another time did 10 and 20 minute additions of a similar amount and found it gave more long lasting hop flavour.

I'll find out for myself soon enough, my last pale ale had only 60m, 5m and flameout additions (I can't remember why, seems very conservative now I think about it). Next time I'll try 60, 20m, 10m and 5m to compare.

 

[brentice]

im a big fan of cascade hops

 

[bum]

my last pale ale had only 60m, 5m and flameout additions (I can't remember why, seems very conservative now I think about it).

Assuming you got the same IBU, it could be argued that spreading the additions out over time is more conservative. For same IBU, shifting the hop additions later will give bigger hop presence. My experience is that it fades faster though. Happy to accept that it might be a problem with no-chill or my process in general if this goes against the general consensus.