Carlton Draught Grain Bill?

[iralosavic]

I'm not a huge fan of Carlton Draught, but it is a beer I drink a lot (as it's on tap pretty much everywhere), so I'm familiar with its flavour profile, as I'm sure many of the more experienced AG brewers are too.

From what I get, it has a subtle, yet destinctive maltiness that lingers after the initial bitternerss, which I believe to be delivered from a modest dose of PoR. I'm curious as to what the grain bill would be for this beer, so that I can appreciate where it gets its qualities from and then apply this understanding to developing my own recipes.

I'm thinking it would be 80-90% ale malt, but that's about as far as I can take my guess.



Cheers,

 

[Nick JD]

You can get really close with 100% Barrett Burston Ale - if you use their Pale Malt a touch (<5%) of BB Caramalt gets you the same colour. Go for 1.045.

About 20 IBUs of PoR at the start of the boil. 34/70, or S189 at 12C --> 16C ... S23 if kept low and slow (<12C).

Filter the hell out of it or gelatine and polyclar. Aussie lagers need to be bright.

 

[iralosavic]

Would 100% ale malt not be exceedingly malty? Or can you turn this around by mashing low? Speaking of which, would this be a single step infusion at around 64c? Would you add a protein rest? (I can't really do decoctions as I'm BIAB.)

Is the dryness achieved purely from the lagering process? I've seen people adding things like rice or torrified wheat for this purpose in other recipies (although I'd struggle to see CUB doing this).

I've got brewbite, which I can use late in the boil, but would I still need to add gelatin to get the brightness (if not filtering)?

 

[bradsbrew]

Use the BB Pale malt not the BB ale malt.

edit. I often mash at between 61-63 when doing aussie lagers.


Cheers

 

[sama]

Surely sugar...?

 

[bradsbrew]

Surely sugar...?

15 % at least.

 

[iralosavic]

15 % at least.

I thought you'd need something for the dryness. 15% seems a lot though. Would 85% malt still achieve that malty backbone present in CD?

 

[mr_tyreman]

Pretty sure 18IBU's is their target bitterness

 

[Nick JD]

Would 100% ale malt not be exceedingly malty? Or can you turn this around by mashing low? Speaking of which, would this be a single step infusion at around 64c? Would you add a protein rest? (I can't really do decoctions as I'm BIAB.)

Is the dryness achieved purely from the lagering process? I've seen people adding things like rice or torrified wheat for this purpose in other recipies (although I'd struggle to see CUB doing this).

I've got brewbite, which I can use late in the boil, but would I still need to add gelatin to get the brightness (if not filtering)?

Carlton draught is actually (shock horror) a little bit malty for what it is. Compared to the competition, anyway.

<rant on>
To be honest - you can make a better beer than it. Just use 95% Aussie malt; 5% crystal; 20 IBUs of fresh PoR and a nice lager yeast COLD. Mash at 66C! Make it TASTE NICE.
</rant off>

 

[iralosavic]

Carlton draught is actually (shock horror) a little bit malty for what it is. Compared to the competition, anyway.

<rant on>
To be honest - you can make a better beer than it. Just use 95% Aussie malt; 5% crystal; 20 IBUs of fresh PoR and a nice lager yeast COLD. Mash at 66C! Make it TASTE NICE.
</rant off>

Hey Nick. I understand the reason behind your rant and I just want to remind you that I did start this thread stating that I'm not a huge fan. I just figured that by understanding the recipe behind a beer I'm familiar with, I could learn more and be able to start creating my own beers rather than relying on clones.

Thanks for your help, mate.

 

[bung89]

Hey Nick. I understand the reason behind your rant and I just want to remind you that I did start this thread stating that I'm not a huge fan. I just figured that by understanding the recipe behind a beer I'm familiar with, I could learn more and be able to start creating my own beers rather than relying on clones.

Thanks for your help, mate.

When I saw this thread I was wondering why anybody would want to make this beer but after seeing your reasoning I'm actually thinking of looking up some beers I drink alot of (not because I like them but beacuse they have them everywhere) could be a good way to learn a bit about the different flavours of grains.
Cheers

 

[iralosavic]

When I saw this thread I was wondering why anybody would want to make this beer but after seeing your reasoning I'm actually thinking of looking up some beers I drink alot of (not because I like them but beacuse they have them everywhere) could be a good way to learn a bit about the different flavours of grains.
Cheers

Yeah, mate. That's exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm certainly not going to <opinionated language>waste</opinionated language> my time actually reproducing a CD clone when I personally don't love it. The reason I got into brewing was mostly for the creative outlet (like cooking), where I can tailor make beers to my personal tastes in each style I enjoy.

If there's any beer where the brain will be able to piece the flavour puzzle together, it's probably going to be the one I've been drinking at pubs for a decade. If you saw my beer stores, you'd probably be surprised that I've even gone back for seconds of CD. (It's full of trappist dubbels, craft stouts and porters, witbeirs etc). This is just my way of taking the first step to learning.

Once I feel I appreciate how the (estimated) ingredients in CD can be attributed to the beer, I will piece together a modified variant that I feel will sit a lot better with my palate. Edit: rather than simply copy someone elses suggestion for a superior similar recipe, (which I'm sure would be excellent - no disrespect to the more educated brewers here intended!).

 

[sama]

Your dryness will be a result of your mash temp and yeasts attenuation.if i mash a 95 % pils malt beer at 63-64,with good mineral levels (i add calcium appropriately at mash and yeast nutrient at boil) and plenty of yeast (eg a 2litre cpa starter) ill get 1040ish down to 1006ish, so id be looking at gettin attenuation cranking for a quenching dry aussie beer.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

nick JD's recipe, because it is "all malt" will in fact be quite a lot maltier than CD - i agree however that its also probably going to be a tastier beer too. Aside from that, everything else he suggested will get you a pretty damn good facsimle of Carlton Draught.

BB Pale & about 15% sugar (but thats 15% of your extract, not 15% by weight) with a mid range mash temp will give you the dryness you need and also cut back the maltiness a bit so it more accurately reflects the original beer. It wont be the "same" - but it will be a similar and probably quite nice, australian pale lager.

 

[mr_tyreman]

CUB are happy to let it's customers know that they pile into their CD an extra burst of sulfur dioxide as a preservative, I can foward you their emails if u like

 

[iralosavic]

nick JD's recipe, because it is "all malt" will in fact be quite a lot maltier than CD - i agree however that its also probably going to be a tastier beer too. Aside from that, everything else he suggested will get you a pretty damn good facsimle of Carlton Draught.

BB Pale & about 15% sugar (but thats 15% of your extract, not 15% by weight) with a mid range mash temp will give you the dryness you need and also cut back the maltiness a bit so it more accurately reflects the original beer. It wont be the "same" - but it will be a similar and probably quite nice, australian pale lager.

Excuse my ignorance, but how do you calculate a percentage in that manner? I went to have a fiddle with Beersmith, but realised my trial period has expired, so I need to organise getting a key. Cheers

 

[eamonnfoley]

How do you reproduce the headache inducing part? Ferment at 17C with a lager yeast and get some lovely fusels going?

 

[Rowy]

Excuse my ignorance, but how do you calculate a percentage in that manner? I went to have a fiddle with Beersmith, but realised my trial period has expired, so I need to organise getting a key. Cheers

Get brewmate its free.

 

[DUANNE]

CUB are happy to let it's customers know that they pile into their CD an extra burst of sulfur dioxide as a preservative, I can foward you their emails if u like

How do you reproduce the headache inducing part? Ferment at 17C with a lager yeast and get some lovely fusels going?

i think that may be a big part of the answer right there.

 

[suorama]

How about this experiment?
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/blog...hp?showentry=15

Maybe right mash schedule gives some answers.