Can Anyone Help Convert This Recipe To Extract?

[ben_sa]

Hey Guys,

Found a recipe im interested in after reading the drinking reports on it, However, Bring that i havent moved into AG/BIAB, Im a bit limited...

This is the recipe:

4 kg Pale
500g Wheat
250g Crystal

10-15g Super Alpha @ 60 minutes
15g Amarillo @ 20 minutes
20g Cascade @ 10 minutes
US05

Being that i can only manage about an 8-10L boil, Am i going to actually require those quantities? For ex: my last LCPA'ish clone used only 2.5K LDME, 250g Light Crystal, then the hop additions... UNless this recipe is for a double brew :blink:

Any help in pointing me toward the right direction would be most appreciated...

Ben

 

[Pennywise]

Use something like beersmith to give you the same gravities you need with extract of the same sort. So what I'd do for this one, is use about 500g dry wheat malt extract, and how ever much ldme or pale liquid extract will bring yu up to the recipes og. Then just steep the crystal. Withhe hops work backwards so boil what ever volume you can and use the same amount of hops, except for the buttering addition, adjust the IBU with that addition only

 

[MHB]

Just very roughly and making a couple of assumptions like a 75% Brewhouse Yield for the recipe and 1 litre of losses for trub to make a 22.5 L batch, I get about 1.046 as the target OG.

There are going to be lots of ways to make it work but this comes in fairly close and keeps the spirit of the recipe alive: -
1.5 Kg can of Light LME
1.0 Kg Bag Light Dry Malt Extract
0.5 Kg Dry Wheat Malt Extract
0.25 Kg Medium Crustal Malt (Steeped in hot water for about 10 minutes, use steeping as all or part of your boil (remove the grain before boiling))

Boil the 1Kg of DME in 8 Litres of water using the hoping schedule in your post, (It's good to boil hops at close to the target gravity) add the rest of the malt extract at the end, keep at a simmer for about 10 minutes then cool in the sink, decant to fermenter leaving the trub behind, add cold water to volume (it's a good idea to have 10 litres of water in the fridge over night and use that to get the temperature down fast) pitch yeast...

Sounds tasty

MHB

 

[ben_sa]

Cheers guys, just another q: could I substitute the 1.5kg of liquid malt, for dry malt? Are there any major digferences?

 

[MHB]

No and Yes its ~17% moisture, LME is about 80% "Solids" DME is about 97% (3% water).

So 1.23 Kg of DME is equivalent to 1.5 Kg of LME.
2.23 Kg Bag Light Dry Malt Extract
0.5 Kg Dry Wheat Malt Extract
0.25 Kg Medium Crustal Malt
Works out the same as the previous version

MHB

 

[ben_sa]

Awesome MHB. thanks mate. I only asked as I already have about 5kg of DME along with everything else required, so now I can have a midnight brew sesh tonight after I knock off work

 

[Nick JD]

I'd be substituting about 20% of that malt extract for dextrose.

There's a hell of a lot of unfermentables in most malt extracts and you run the risk of having a really "heavy" beer that finishes at 1.020+.

That's fine if you are aiming for that, but most APAs don't finish that high. All Extract ones usually do.

 

[MHB]

Its only starting at 1.047, if it finishes as you say at 1.020+, you are suggesting an apparent attenuation of 57% or less if that + has any meaning.

1.011 is what you would expect from US-05 (77% apparent)
MHB

 

[katzke]

Hey Guys,

Found a recipe im interested in after reading the drinking reports on it, However, Bring that i havent moved into AG/BIAB, Im a bit limited...

This is the recipe:

4 kg Pale
500g Wheat
250g Crystal

10-15g Super Alpha @ 60 minutes
15g Amarillo @ 20 minutes
20g Cascade @ 10 minutes
US05

Being that i can only manage about an 8-10L boil, Am i going to actually require those quantities? For ex: my last LCPA'ish clone used only 2.5K LDME, 250g Light Crystal, then the hop additions... UNless this recipe is for a double brew :blink:

Any help in pointing me toward the right direction would be most appreciated...

Ben

Wheat grain and wheat extract is not a one to one substitute. Wheat extract has 40 to 60% barley in it. Best to use a brewing program to figure it out. A bit of reading from suppliers or malt companies will not hurt.

For a program do some searching and I am sure you will find a good free one on this site.

 

[Jimboley]

Hey Guys,

Found a recipe im interested in after reading the drinking reports on it, However, Bring that i havent moved into AG/BIAB, Im a bit limited...

This is the recipe:

4 kg Pale
500g Wheat
250g Crystal

10-15g Super Alpha @ 60 minutes
15g Amarillo @ 20 minutes
20g Cascade @ 10 minutes
US05

Being that i can only manage about an 8-10L boil, Am i going to actually require those quantities? For ex: my last LCPA'ish clone used only 2.5K LDME, 250g Light Crystal, then the hop additions... UNless this recipe is for a double brew :blink:

Any help in pointing me toward the right direction would be most appreciated...

Ben

Hi Ben,
MHB has done a good job, and you may not need this... but here's my 2 cents...

22L
Grain-to-Extract Bill

1x 1.5kg Light LME
1x 1.5kg Pale Wheat LME (up to 60% Barley anyhow)
500g Light DME
and 250g of crystal steeped in 1-1.5L @ 65C for 30-40 mins

I would use the 500g DME for the boil then add the 2 cans in the last 10mins.
Otherwise the gravity will be too high for hop utilization (bitterness)

Hope this helps

Cheers,

James

 

[esssee]

Hi Ben,
MHB has done a good job, and you may not need this... but here's my 2 cents...

22L
Grain-to-Extract Bill

1x 1.5kg Light LME
1x 1.5kg Pale Wheat LME (up to 60% Barley anyhow)
500g Light DME
and 250g of crystal steeped in 1-1.5L @ 65C for 30-40 mins

I would use the 500g DME for the boil then add the 2 cans in the last 10mins.
Otherwise the gravity will be too high for hop utilization (bitterness)

Hope this helps

Cheers,

James

Hi James,

I'm in the same boat as Ben.

Just one question, and excuse the questions of a Newbie, but does it matter what size the boil is? I'm assuming a set amount of water must be used, to create the correct Gravity for the Hops.

Also, I assume you steep the Crystal first, then add the DME and boil, to ensure everything is sanitary?

Thanks in advance,

Steve.

 

[Jimboley]

Hi James,

I'm in the same boat as Ben.

Just one question, and excuse the questions of a Newbie, but does it matter what size the boil is? I'm assuming a set amount of water must be used, to create the correct Gravity for the Hops.

Also, I assume you steep the Crystal first, then add the DME and boil, to ensure everything is sanitary?

Thanks in advance,

Steve.

G'day Steve,
Yes, and yes.
Best to use this set amount of water. You have to keep the gravity below a certain point or the hops wont release there oils/acid as well.
And yeah sorry, I should of been more clear... boil the grain liquor and just that little bit of DME, adding the rest of the fermentables at the end of boil or last 5 mins.

Happy Brewing!

 

[Camo1234]

G'day Steve,
Yes, and yes.
Best to use this set amount of water. You have to keep the gravity below a certain point or the hops wont release there oils/acid as well.
And yeah sorry, I should of been more clear... boil the grain liquor and just that little bit of DME, adding the rest of the fermentables at the end of boil or last 5 mins.

Happy Brewing!

Mate a bit off topic but I did a brew the other weekend and used 1kg of LDME in my boil of 5ltr of water that had carapils steeped in it as I forgot to keep my gravity lower... DO you think this much LDME will effect the brew substantially?

 

[Jimboley]

Mate a bit off topic but I did a brew the other weekend and used 1kg of LDME in my boil of 5ltr of water that had carapils steeped in it as I forgot to keep my gravity lower... DO you think this much LDME will effect the brew substantially?

Possibly, was it a full 60min boil?
Did the beer taste bitter?
John Palmer has all the answers on this subject. I guess this isnt really off topic is it? :unsure:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-5.html

 

[brad05]

The SG of the boil does have an effect on hop utilisation. If you have a higher gravity boil you will need to use more hops for the same bittering. Go read how to brew at the link above.

 

[Nick JD]

Its only starting at 1.047, if it finishes as you say at 1.020+, you are suggesting an apparent attenuation of 57% or less if that + has any meaning.

1.011 is what you would expect from US-05 (77% apparent)
MHB

Attenuation has more to do with just yeast strain. Please look into the fermentability of LDME - especially some of the dried malts.

You can't use AG attenuation figues on extract brewing - especially if the LDME has a confectionary background.

IMO an extract beer's primary giveaway is it's excessive body and sweetness.

 

[MHB]

It might come as a surprise to that I am in fact quite familiar with the properties of the various liquid and dry malts on the market. In making the suggestions I did I was choosing from widely available ingredients and trying to stick to primary package sizes to make it easy for the op to get the ingredients and not have any leftover or waste.
As I said above that was one of many options, as was pointed out you could have used other ingredients to get a similar result.

Your notion that DME will only attenuate 55-60% is wrong for any brewing malt extract I have encountered; they will all ferment close to 80%. I don't know where to buy extract as poor as you have described so I don't expect it is widely available, nor a reflection on the results most brewers will get using extract available through Home Brew Retailers.

Excessive sweetness from extract is a taste question, if you find all extract brews too sweet, by all means substitute some dextrose, but remember that is a personal taste decision.

MHB



You might get some benefit from reading this (I doubt it but its possible)

From www.braukaiser.com

When using malt extract for priming, its fermentability needs to be taken into account. A typical apparent fermentability (limit of attenuation) of malt extract is 80%. (a 12 Plato wort will finish at 2.4 Plato / 1.048 OG - 1.010 FG). But in order to calculate the amount of fermentable sugars in DME, the true attenuation needs to be calculated. To convert between apparent and true attenuation, the following formula can be used (see Understanding Attenuation)

 

[esssee]

Hi guys,

I ended up putting this one down last Wednesday (16/03). I went with the following:

1x 1.5kg Light LME
1x 1.5kg Pale Wheat LME (up to 60% Barley anyhow)
500g Light DME

and because all of the grain I have had to be mashed, rather than steeped, and after plugging a few details into Beer Smith, decided to cheat, and add 250g of Dex.

I also couldn't get Super Alpha Hops, so hopped thusly:

25g POR @ 60 minutes
15g Amarillo @ 20 minutes
20g Cascade @ 10 minutes

and Yeastied as follows:

US05

I started at 1.052 (pretty much spot on), and now, six days down the track, I have it sitting at 1.014. Probably been a couple of degrees higher than I would have liked, so I have just given it a swirl, and added some ice to the bin of water I have it submerged in. Hopefully that will finish it off.

Anyhoo, getting to the point.

I thought that the 25g of POR would be a bit too much, as the smell coming through the airlock was at time literally burning the hairs from my nose, but MY GOD. I have just tasted it, and it is a beautifully mellow taste. Not too bitter, and as fruity as all get out.

I am REALLY impressed. This is my first partial, and it is streets ahead of the Kits I have done. Is this the step up I could expect moving to All Grain?

 

[Brewer_010]

Your notion that DME will only attenuate 55-60% is wrong for any brewing malt extract I have encountered; they will all ferment close to 80%. I don't know where to buy extract as poor as you have described so I don't expect it is widely available, nor a reflection on the results most brewers will get using extract available through Home Brew Retailers.

I've brewed loads of extract / DME brews with around 80-90% extract and they normally end up around 1004-1010 depending on the recipe. With a good recipe, yeast and method there is no reason an extract brew should taste overly sweet/heavy etc. If they are, the brewer should have a good look at what they're doing.

 

[Pennywise]

What's the other 10-20%? Curious because the only times I could get my extract brews below 1010 was if I used a portion of dextrose/sugar