Bulk Priming...

[Sammus]

I'm just about to bottle for the first time in quite a while. It's an English ale so I'm thinking about 1.7 Volumes of CO2.

I'm a little confused though, according to the calculators I've tried, I usually get told to use around 95g of dextrose for my 30L. Firstly, that seems a little low since the 'standard' is 180g for a 23L batch... Secondly, I just realised they take into account residual CO2 from fermentation, and I've been swirling mine every now and then for the past week or so in an effort to make sure no diacetyl makes it into the bottles (damn WY1968) - in the process I imagine I also expelled a lot of CO2... now I'm at a loss what to do? anyone have any advice?

S

 

[goatherder]

Sammus, have a look at this calculator which works very well for me.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...amp;#entry67588

According to this your numbers sound about right, depending on the temperature of your brew. It may sound a little low because 1.7 volumes is certainly on the low side for a 'standard' beer. 'Standard' beers tend to be fizzy (think fizzy tasteless commercial lagers). I find that missing a little high is better than missing a little low when carbonating.

I reckon the swirling won't make a lot of difference - at an ale yeast temperature there won't be enough dissolved C02 to throw your calcs out. Just prime according to your fermentation temperature and desired carbonation rate.

 

[dr K]

If you have been doing a diacetyl rest then (because of the slightly elevated temp) you will have BA dissolved CO2, well not enough to concern at any rate. Many years ago (pre keg) I always bulk primed , my hazy memory tells me that 5gms/litre will make really fizzy beer, 4g/l = my sort of beer and 3g/l a low caronation beer...these are aprox but my whole world is aprox.
So 30 x 3 = 90g , 95 g seems fine for an English Bitter
but 180 / 23 = 7.8g/l , so I figure my memory is lacking...there is something about 5/4/3 that sticks though...
K

 

[wimbymoonshine]

hi sammus,

english ales are not supposed to be fizzy but 95g/30L seems quite low, but then again 1.7 volumes of C02 is also not much.
You are right that the calculator takes into account dissolved C02 and i have found that if u are bulk priming the calculators tend to slightly underestimate the dosage (reason unknown).
So i would say as you have been swirling and prob liberated SOME of the dissolved C02, i would personally put in a smidge more than the 95. Say 120g.
You'll be way safe in terms of bottle bombs etc, at worst it may be slightly over cabed but id prefer that to being flat?

Cheers

 

[Sammus]

Thanks for your responses all! The swirling was done once primary had died down/finished and definitely liberated some CO2 (airlock bubbling like mad when I do it ). The BeerIsGood calc is the one I decided to go off. I got the 1.7 figure from a list of average carbonation ranges (average range? anyway..) and english bitter was something like 1-1.7, so I chose the top end. I've decided to add a bit more dex anyway, so I've got about 115g in 300ml of boiling water, that is about to be cooled and thrown in a bucket ready for my bottling adventure!

 

[dr K]

Perhaps the air lock mad bubble effect was caused by the turbulence created by the swirling motion rather than the liberation of CO2 from solution???

 

[Tony]

I worked this priming chart out myself using maths and lots of logged data over the years of bottling.

It gives me perfect carb every time.

Its based on the theory that final gravity and volume are the 2 determining factors in hoy much sugar you need.

All anounts in this chart are for dextrose...... i have never primed with anything else.

If you have say a 30 liter batch to prime...... and it finished at 1.010...... devide 140g by 22 liters and then multiply by 30 to get the priming amount for 30 liters. I havr the chart set up for priming a 23 liter brew after racking (22 liters) and a 50 liter keg.

cheers

View attachment PRIMING_CHART.xls

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

If you have been doing a diacetyl rest then (because of the slightly elevated temp) you will have BA dissolved CO2, well not enough to concern at any rate. Many years ago (pre keg) I always bulk primed , my hazy memory tells me that 5gms/litre will make really fizzy beer, 4g/l = my sort of beer and 3g/l a low caronation beer...these are aprox but my whole world is aprox.
So 30 x 3 = 90g , 95 g seems fine for an English Bitter
but 180 / 23 = 7.8g/l , so I figure my memory is lacking...there is something about 5/4/3 that sticks though...
K

In my experience and opinion dr K has it spot on :beer:

C&B
TDA

 

[ohitsbrad]

While on the subject, how do you know if the yeast carried over to the bottling bucket is in a good enough condition to allow the beer to carbonate in the bottle? If fermentation is finished, and the beer now has alcohol, how can you know if the yeast is capable of further fermenting all the priming sugar to achieve the desired volumes of CO₂?

I have only brewed ales and allow two weeks for fermentation in one vessel. Then on bottling day I add the dextrose solution to the bottling bucket and transfer the beer off the yeast into the bottling bucket but allow a small amount of yeast to come through. Then I stir gently and bottle. I haven't been able to get consistent carbonation despite similar amounts of priming sugar and final gravities for all batches. Usually there is little sign of carbonation before three weeks (bottles stored at approx 18 deg), and even then, it's lower than the 2.5 volumes I aim for.

Are there any rules of thumb for how long you could leave the beer before bottling without adding fresh yeast back at bottling time? If you need to add fresh yeast, how much should you add for say 20 litres of beer?

 

[Sammus]

Well, I'm done now.

I hope theres enough yeast.. I use 1968 and it flocced out like nothing I've ever seen before! I imagine theres still enough in suspension though... I've heard that the filterers have enough yeast left in suspension for carbing so I reckon I will... could take a while though, so all you HAGs, leave my bottle till the end :lol:

 

[wimbymoonshine]

While on the subject, how do you know if the yeast carried over to the bottling bucket is in a good enough condition to allow the beer to carbonate in the bottle? If fermentation is finished, and the beer now has alcohol, how can you know if the yeast is capable of further fermenting all the priming sugar to achieve the desired volumes of CO₂?

I have only brewed ales and allow two weeks for fermentation in one vessel. Then on bottling day I add the dextrose solution to the bottling bucket and transfer the beer off the yeast into the bottling bucket but allow a small amount of yeast to come through. Then I stir gently and bottle. I haven't been able to get consistent carbonation despite similar amounts of priming sugar and final gravities for all batches. Usually there is little sign of carbonation before three weeks (bottles stored at approx 18 deg), and even then, it's lower than the 2.5 volumes I aim for.

Are there any rules of thumb for how long you could leave the beer before bottling without adding fresh yeast back at bottling time? If you need to add fresh yeast, how much should you add for say 20 litres of beer?

There will generally always be enough yeast in suspension, even after using finings etc.

 

[braufrau]

While on the subject, how do you know if the yeast carried over to the bottling bucket is in a good enough condition to allow the beer to carbonate in the bottle? If fermentation is finished, and the beer now has alcohol, how can you know if the yeast is capable of further fermenting all the priming sugar to achieve the desired volumes of CO2?

<snip>

Are there any rules of thumb for how long you could leave the beer before bottling without adding fresh yeast back at bottling time? If you need to add fresh yeast, how much should you add for say 20 litres of beer?

Its generally recommended to repitch for a high gravity beer like a tripel.
I keep back 100ml from the starter and pitch that into the bottling bucket ... but that
doesn't tell you how many cells or anything useful like that .. so the answer is ... some.