Brew Rig Design

[yardy]

Underlet - is this filling through the false bottom rather than the sparge arm on top? I had thought about having some way of pumping through the false bottom purely for stuck sparges, this just adds another reason to do it.

gday cd,

i underlet through the FB (gravity fed) and have found on a couple of slow sparges with high %age of rye and wheat, that letting as little as a couple of hundred ml flow up through the FB can sort it out.

see here, posts #113 and #118 for the pipe work to the MT for underletting and the False Bottom http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...3423&st=100


cheers

 

[cdbrown]

Top work from Auberins. Ordered the temp control stuff on Thursday last week, got home last night to find the firs package from them. Sent as a gift with a value of $11 which is nice of them. Inside it contained the PID controller for the HLT - didn't reaise how small they were - two 40A SSRs and 1 heat sink - it's massive. Still waiting on package #2 which will have the HERMS PID, two PT100 probes and the other heat sink. They were shipped together, so I'm hoping for delivery today.

 

[cdbrown]

Didn't get to spend any time on the rig over the weekend apart from a few purchases from the big green shed. Grabbed a few copper T-pieces, 90 degree bends, solder and a butane burner. Burner only cost me $20 instead of the $60 as the chick ran it through as the gas bottle replacement rather than the whole kit.

Trying to decide on the size of the false bottom for the mash tun. Being the tooheys type which are tall and narrow cutting a 12" hole in the top pretty much removes the whole lid. Would I be better off using the CUB type keg as the mash tun and the others for the HLT and keggle?

Will be whirlpooling and using a bent pick up on the keggle as I figure the muck will sit in the curved base.

 

[raven19]

...contained the PID controller for the HLT - didn't reaise how small they were - two 40A SSRs and 1 heat sink - it's massive.

Exciting times! Look very similar to the ones I got recently too.

Looks weird - a small SSR and massive heatsink.

I have located good sized plstic housing boxes from a tradies electrical supplier - if that is your plan to mount all these goodies into. I think they were around $30 - $40 iirc. Yet to buy mine though.

Keep the updates coming! (Cant comment on the keggle issue though except to maximise your false bottom size)

 

[dbod]

Didn't get to spend any time on the rig over the weekend apart from a few purchases from the big green shed. Grabbed a few copper T-pieces, 90 degree bends, solder and a butane burner. Burner only cost me $20 instead of the $60 as the chick ran it through as the gas bottle replacement rather than the whole kit.

Trying to decide on the size of the false bottom for the mash tun. Being the tooheys type which are tall and narrow cutting a 12" hole in the top pretty much removes the whole lid. Would I be better off using the CUB type keg as the mash tun and the others for the HLT and keggle?

Will be whirlpooling and using a bent pick up on the keggle as I figure the muck will sit in the curved base.

Re: MLT. You can cut a slit in the top to feed the False Bottom through but the wider keg might be easier.
I'm just trying to decide whether to go the 12" FB with slit or just use a 9" one. Neither fully extends to the edge of the keg inside, I'll have either a 1" or 4" slope around the FB. I'm assuming that a smaller gap is better but not sure really.

 

[raven19]

I would have thought maximising a false bottom area to allow more wort to freely move through in a HERMS system would be the way to go - subject to avoiding channeling, etc of the grain bed.

 

[razz]

I'm with you on the false bottom size raven, in recent months I've used 9", 12" and am now using 390mm. For a HERMS, the 9" will limit the recirc to a small flow and a very slow sparge. Conversely, the 390mm false bottom allows for a recirc that easily meets my requirements.

 

[cdbrown]

I figured the larger would be better. I hadn't even thought of using the CUB keg as I wanted to keep all the vessels the same and it only occured to me to measure it the other day. I'll be able to get a 12" in there, just means cutting away more of the top than I planned. Next will be to measure the lid I plan on using from a spare pot. Hopefully that's the same size or I'll go for the slot option from dbod.

After watching some youtube clips I'll be going back to the green shed to grab some flux, different solder and some emery paper. Don't want to lace my nice beer with lead!

 

[raven19]

Re: MLT. You can cut a slit in the top to feed the False Bottom through but the wider keg might be easier.

+1 to this. My current MT has these slits also - allowing for a smaller hole in the top (hence can use an old pot lid as a MT lid now). The slits simply allow the false bottom to slide into the vessel at which point you can then rotate it 90 degrees and sit it on the keggle base.

 

[cdbrown]

With the help of the almighty HERMS-god Chappo, here's the flow scheme for the rig (not to scale). Utilising the dual head march pump http://www.marchpump.com/documents/series_dualhead.asp I have the option of fly sparging for those extra points.

Both heads need to be primed for operation even if the outlet valves are closed. Will need a way of getting the right side primed before pumping into the MLT. Replacing the MLT valve on the left side with a 3-way valve and installing a 3-way valve near the inlet of the pump right head will provide a path to gravity feed both pump heads.

Will this allow me to underlet to the MLT in the even of stuck sparge or even during dough-in as I've read that people have good result from underletting after the grain is added? Is it even worth it?

edit - anybody know if those dual head pumps are safe for brewing with like the 809-PL-HS? Or even where to get it?

View attachment dual_pump_flow.pdf

View attachment dual_pump_flow_2.pdf

 

[chappo1970]

edit - anybody know if those dual head pumps are safe for brewing with like the 809-PL-HS? Or even where to get it?

"The plastic parts are molded out of glass filled polypropylene and Kynar. The stationary impeller spindle is ceramic on Model 851. The O rings are Viton or Ethylene Propylene rubber. There is a type 316 stainless or ceramic thrust washer and thrust screw. The magnet is a glazed ceramic. For materials other than standard, contact the factory."​

All those components and their materials are food safe by the look of it cdb. But a quick email to march direct should give you comfort also you can ask them at the same time who stocks them here in Oz.

 

[cdbrown]

Looks like the dual head pump is not recommended by Process Pumps due to it only being rated to 87. Fair enough that they don't recommend running it close to it's max temp, but if the max temp is the normal mash out temp and I'm not using it to transfer from the kettle it should be alright??

Hi Craig,

Thank you for your enquiry Craig.

The 802 and 851 dual-headed models are not made of a suitable material (plastic) to handle the high temperatures used for home-brewing kits Im sorry to tell you Craig.

That is why the 809 PL HS is used, it is rated to 121 deg.C. and ,made from a special plastic (Polysulfil : PL which is a higher temperature plastic).

The 802 is made from virgin Polypropylene (PP or PPL) and is only rated to 87 deg.C. max..

As we never like to run equipment at its max. temp. capability, the Polysulfil plastic 809-PL-HS gives a nice buffer over the temperatures seen in home brewing.

The 809-PL-HS is a very successful little pump for the home brewing market with virtually no warranty claims so we stick with it for those apps.

The larger 815-PL is also available in Polysulfil, but rarely purchased for home brewing we find.

Kind Regards
Process Pumps
Dale

 

[cdbrown]

To add weight to not using the dual head pumps - direct from March Manufacturing themselves

Hello Craig,

Our dual head series pumps are not suitable for handling food grade products. The pumps are made of polypropylene which is not a food grade plastic. Polypropylene can not handle the high temperature needed for pumping hot wort.

My personal opinion: I assume you have found a source for used dual head pumps. These pumps were manufactured for pumping very toxic photographic chemicals. I certainly would not want to consume a food product that had passed through them.

Be safe, use a new food grade pump.

Regards,

Bob Estabrook
March Manufacturing, Inc.

Phone: 313-372-3000
Fax: 313-371-4434
Toll Free: 877-421-4773
Email: [email protected]

I guess that's why nobody has used these dual head pumps before and either just gone for one with batch sparge, or two for fly sparge. Well I'll stick with 1 pump for the moment and will plan to allow space for it later.

The second package from Auber arrived last night - PID, 2nd heat sink and two pt100 probes. Didn't realise the probes diameter was so large. So that's the control part sorted. Need to get a good element for the HLT rated 15A (once the electrician actually comes over to give a quote) then I'll be asking lots of questions as to best way to wire it up.

 

[cdbrown]

Had an electrician around this morning to do a quote. He's proposing installing a 25A breaker in the box wired to a 15A double plug. Hopefully he'll come back with a reasonable price for that and some other electrical work around the house.

With soldering copper - I checked the solder rods last night and they say 2.4mm 2% composite alloy? Is this the right stuff or should I get the soft stuff on the roll?

 

[Spoonta]

thats fine for the copper might want to go a bit higher % for soldering the s/s

 

[cdbrown]

Here's the revised plan using 3-way valves or T-pieces and ball valves.

Comments more than welcome if there's a better way to do it.

View attachment 3_way_valve_flow.pdf

View attachment t_piece_valve_flow.pdf

 

[cdbrown]

Next piece of the puzzle ordered. Following a thread regarding heat up times with a 3.6kW element, I decided to buy one off ebay http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...em=160258960927 as they are nice and cheap and should do nicely in the HLT.

Tomorrow might splash out and buy the 7.6L pot and twin undersink water filter from Big W. Then I'm heading to see some family and might get a chance to drop in to TWOC and pick up a march pump and false bottom.

 

[cdbrown]

Element arrived yesterday which is good. Just put in an order for 12" false bottom, march pump, 1/2" valves, T-pieces, thread-barb, nuts, all thread and silicone hose from TWOC which is being picked up tonight. Heading to Big W to get a pot, cheapo kettle and water filter (hopefully the flow rate is sufficient).

Still need to source a panel or cabinet for the control gear, some fittings to go from the copper to the bulkhead fittings, better regulator, insulation and sight glass.

 

[raven19]

So the credit card is taking a pounding by the sounds of it!

Bring on the piccies of the build mate. Looking forward to it.

 

[goomboogo]

So the credit card is taking a pounding by the sounds of it!

Bring on the piccies of the build mate. Looking forward to it.

Yeah, this homebrewing is a great way to save money.