Berliner Weisse - sour noob

[Don Runk]

I had a Boatrocker orange sherbet Berliner Weiss and fell in love. Not many berliners available to buy on the shelves so....

I'm going to try a Berliner Weiss using a sour mash (20%volume).

Aim to make a 4L "starter" (AG) then fill my 5L erlenmeyer flask with it, Boil for 10m to drive off oxygen and once cooled to 50c "pitch" a handfull of unmilled grain in the flask, purge with co2 and foil cap.

Keep this as close to 50c as i can with heat belt and PID in ferm chamber for 48hrs

Taste in 48hrs and if soured enough boil in flask for 15 to kill all nasties then store until brewday (probably another 48hrs wait) if not sour enough give it another day and kill it then.

brewday - mash "main" wort then dump in the flask, boil for 15 with little hallertau, dump into fermenter for a final volume of 20L pitch us-05.

Am i on the right track?

 

[seamad]

I think the lacto maybe happier @ 35 C
I've had 2 failed attempts at the souring 1st method so I'm not the one to give advice.
!st one was "wild " lacto from a handful of grain, smelt like vomit and didn't get any better, pH went down to 3.6 from memory, tried m44, us05 and 1469 top cropped to no avail. Left it in a fermenter to see what would happen, the kids poked a hole in the gladwrap and a month later still nothing, no drop in OG.
2nd one was wyeast culture, smelt a little like vomit( tasted fine ) boiled it when pH was at 3.99 as I thought pH was inhibiting the yeast last time. Top cropped with 1272 for 4 consecutive days and nothing still, no change in OG. If it didn't smell as bad I'd happily use it as a starsan substitute. The 2nd one I bubbled CO2 through the site gauge on the crown urn twice daily as well.
Your method is pretty well the same as I've tried. Others have had success though, just wish I knew what was going wrong.
Sorry, not much help.

 

[Don Runk]

sorry my bad meant to say i was aiming for 40c, I read 38-40c is a sweetspot for keeping other bugs at bay and letting the lacto take control.

thanks for the tips now i'm full of confidence!!! :blink: don't like the sound of a stalled fermentation from the word go!

were you were doing a full volume sour mash?

I read doing a 20% partial sour is pretty easy and you get to kill all bugs before they go to the cool side of the brewery. something i'm worried about fermenting in plastic.

may not have the fermentation stalling doing a partial also? at least 80% of the wort is "normal" and the ph wouldn't be so low.

talking self into it!

 

[Captain Kimbo]

I've been trying to make a lacto starter to sour the mash as I don't have access to commercial lacto like that from Wyeast etc.. boiled 2ltr water with enough DME to sit at 1025 SG then added a cup of unmilled grain and tried to keep warm. Haven't had any success yet.

 

[Dan2]

I'll try to remember to report back here in a few days - week with final report but;
On my 1st attempt right now.
Full mash on Sunday (50/50 Wheat malt/Pils malt), Mash out, malt pipe out (BM 20), set to 40C, CO2 blanket, pitched WY5335 Lacto, glad wrap on surface, Blankets for insulation.
Mash pH on Sunday 5.4
pH yesterday 3.4 - Smell and taste very much like watered down apple juice. Not at all mouth puckering.
pH this morning 3.16 - Similar taste/smell, just a little stronger. No spew or rank smells and no visual abnormalities (stringy/krausen). Slightly sour taste.
Started boil lunch time, half hr boil, Chilled and settled, Oxygen and pitched WY1007 German Ale at 18C
Planning on a normal ferment from here, but we will see...

 

[Dan2]

Good news so far - There is a krausen forming so the ale yeast is active!

 

[Don Runk]

great news Dan! would be heartbreaking to have gone through what seamad did.

ever tried doing a partial sour mash like i was aiming for?

seems like full volume is the norm.

might give it a go regardless. probably wont be that sour in the end i'm guessing, but it may introduce mates palates to the sour world gently.

 

[Dan2]

great news Dan! would be heartbreaking to have gone through what seamad did.

ever tried doing a partial sour mash like i was aiming for?

seems like full volume is the norm.

might give it a go regardless. probably wont be that sour in the end i'm guessing, but it may introduce mates palates to the sour world gently.

I've never tried the partial method. This is the first time I've ever brewed a sour.
Have tried a few sours - a few from Cantillon Brasserie were insanely sour. Not everyone's cup of tea glass of beer, but I loved it.
I brew to my tastes, so don't give a stuff about my mates haha - nah it's always fun seeing a mates face light up over a sip of something that isn't megaswill. They're usually surprised that "That's Beer?" an also that homebrew tastes good!
I had a mate here when I tested the pH just before bringing the BW to boil. He tasted the sample and was very impressed. He wanted to know when it will be ready so he can help me drink it. Granted, is was still full of sugars which would've taken the edge off the sourness, but I'll take it as a win.

Krausen is now a couple inches thick and looking great!

 

[Weizguy]

great news Dan! would be heartbreaking to have gone through what seamad did.

ever tried doing a partial sour mash like i was aiming for?

seems like full volume is the norm.

might give it a go regardless. probably wont be that sour in the end i'm guessing, but it may introduce mates palates to the sour world gently.

I have made a small pot full of sour mash, and split it between a couple of beers.
One was a soured pale Summer ale, and the remainder was stored in the freezer while the other beer was still in the planning stage.
Can't remember if the other beer was Berliner or Göse.

 

[Dan2]

I've been drinking this BW for about a week now, loving it, and won't hesitate to brew it the same again!
It is definitely sour, but no teeth have fallen out yet
I added half a bottle of Craftbrewers apricot flavouring to the keg before racking the brew. I couldn't really pick it so added the other half too.
It's still a background flavour as the sourness is quite dominant.
I think I'd prefer raspberry, so I'll have to brew it again soon to find out!

 

[drifting79]

Don runs have you got a link to the souring method that you used ?

 

[headfreak]

Don't know if it's the same method as Dan2 but this is the one I use with great success.

http://seancoates.com/blogs/berliner-weisse

I also go for the full sour mash and don't bother with the CO[SIZE=1em]2[/SIZE]

 

[Don Runk]

my method turned out brilliantly! i kind of gathered info everywhere so no single link but here was my process-


mash 20% of the final beer volume wanted, collect wort into Erlenmeyer flask (or pot whatever)

boil wort for 10mins to drive off all oxygen in wort. (no hops added)

once cooled to 40c (no stirring or oxygenating!) add a handfull of grain, purge with co2 and foil cap flask or cover pot (probably dont need to co2 since oxygen has been boiled off but easy insurance IMO)

maintain 40c as best possible to keep other bugs at bay and keep lacto happy (i was anal here also and used a PID with a brew belt around flask)

i let mine go 3 days tasting every day and it was awesome on day 3 though quite sour (smells like tinned corn which was gross, but don't worry that boils away)

then i did the rest of the batch (80%) and once that mash was done added the sour mash and went about my boil and normal fermentation etc.


It ended up exactly as i wanted it. A sour that you can give to anyone to introduce them to the style without putting them off sours or stripping the enamel from their teeth. Very smashable and thirst quenching. i had "miss pinky" by boatrocker the other day and i was well in the ball park of that beer. But if you are after serious sourness or a complex sour than this is not it.

hope it helps.

 

[pilgrimspiss]

A simple vid for sours. Going to give this a crack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohhXiKwYYsg&feature=share

Cheers
Matty