Beer Gas

[Back Yard Brewer]

Today I changed from Beer Gas to Cellarmix 40, both these are a BOC product in South Australia. I must comment on how much better the Cellarmix 40 is. Though my gassing up takes a little longer, 300kpa for 1 1/2 minutes compared to Beer Gas at 45 sec. the end product I feel is far superior. Finer bubbles and a lot tighter head on my beer. The combination of 40% Co2 with nitrogen must be the answer. Has anyone else any feedback on the gas they use? I will be sticking with the cellarmix!! The cost is the same.

 

[Stoodoo]

Sounds ok. I think I read somewhere that you need different dispensing equipment for a nitrogen mix. Is that correct? Also what was the cost of the mix and for what weight/amount of gas? Just a query, as in Geelong I last paid about $45 or $47 for 9kg of beer gas. I noticed that beer gas in much larger bottles cost bugger all extra as compared to the 9kg. Though the rental cost skyrockets, I think I was quoted somewhere around $180-$200 for the rental of the large bottles. The savings in gas cost per bottle is definitely not outweighed by the extra cost of the rental. Hell, $17.60 for one years' rental agreement is pretty good value I feel.

Cheers

 

[albrews]

Today I changed from Beer Gas to Cellarmix 40, both these are a BOC product in South Australia. I must comment on how much better the Cellarmix 40 is. Though my gassing up takes a little longer, 300kpa for 1 1/2 minutes compared to Beer Gas at 45 sec. the end product I feel is far superior. Finer bubbles and a lot tighter head on my beer. The combination of 40% Co2 with nitrogen must be the answer. Has anyone else any feedback on the gas they use? I will be sticking with the cellarmix!! The cost is the same.

hi, i am interested in the gassing up times you mention, and could you mention the temperatures of the beer while you are gassing. is it through a special temprite.? times seem short for gassing of the beer.

cheers alan

 

[tangent]

i'd be interested to hear how many kegs you get out of the nitrogen mix. i heard is was a heap less.

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

Dispensing wise I have not changed anything. The cost is $42 for a 6kg refill (exchange) Rental costs are $120 a year. But there are ways around that, if you know what I mean.The cellarmix is in a slightly broader bottle but the same height as the beer gas that I was using.

I failed to mention that I chill my beer in keg to around 3degrees then I carbonate by the shake method. It is better to do it a bit at a time and test than to go to far and have a beer that is over carbonated.


As for how long the cellarmix lasts, I suppose I will find out. But you may be right about using more. I work in the wine industry and it does take more to carbonate with nitrogen. With this in mind it probally explains why it takes me more time to gas up with the cellarmix 40 than it does with the beergas which is all Co2.

 

[peas_and_corn]

I'd say that it would last less if you want the same level of carbonation in the beer. The nitrogen comes out of solution pretty quickly as you pour creating a creamy head but not adding anything substantial to the overall fizzyness. So you will go through pretty much the same amount of CO2 in each keg, but a lower % of the cylinder is CO2. That's what I gather, anyway- I haven't used any mixes, only 100% CO2, so this is based on speculation and a bit of an educated guess rather than experience.

 

[Bazza]

I think Nitrogen comes out of solution slower than CO2 (as it is a bigger molecule) which is why pubs use it (and now some tyre places use it in place of oxygen).

 

[MHB]

I have used mixed gases on and off for the last 7-8 years, I generally gave up because they are too expensive. Then I get a hankering for a Creampour Guinness clone and round we go..again.

There used to be just CO2, different companies called it different names but it was just CO2, you buy it by the Kg like LPG. Like LPG it is a liquid under pressure likewise you are drawing the vapour off the top of the cylinder, the pressure drops, some of the liquid evaporates, a new equilibrium is reached, at a lower liquid level.
The vapour pressure of CO2 is 5.1 atm (~6.6kPa).

Then someone invented the Creampour system. This uses a blend of nitrogen and CO2 gases (not going to get into the physics of upside down bubbles here) but the outcome is a low level of dissolved CO2 hence lower levels of carbonic acid in the beer and less prickle (thats the bubbles bursting on your tongue and triggering sensations), so you get a smoother softer beer.

The Creampour mixes are usually 60/40 or 70/30 (N is always given first) they operate at high pressure and the beer is forced through a restrictor plate to control the flow, Nitrogen is very insoluble so it comes out of solution quickly forming lots of very small bubbles.

Along came all these slow selling brews (the ones we go looking for), the hotels were having trouble with the beer over carbonating and foaming, so someone came up with the idea of diluting the CO2 with nitrogen, these are your 25/75 to 55/45 blends, they are there to prevent foaming, while still pushing the beer out at speed.

The big problem with blended gas is that the bottle pressure can't go over 6.6 kPa, or the CO2 condenses into a liquid and sits on the bottom of the bottle, until the pressure drops to ~6.6 kPa, and you're drawing mostly Nitrogen until then - there goes the blend.
When you think pure Nitrogen is bottled at around 2,000 kPa (1980 kPa I think) and P1V1=P2V2
The amount of gas in the same sized cylinder is 6.6/2000 = 0.0033 of the volume: and here in lays the problem.

You are forever filling the bottles up because they are mostly empty when you get them.

The equation for liquid CO2 is even worse, CO2 is by far and a way the cheapest, you would be better off learning to manage a pure CO2 supply properly, foaming just means you are over carbonated, reduce the serving pressure or increase the temperature a bit and you will save a packet.
Having said all that I just lashed out and got my self a Mykegonlegs 70/30 bottle; must be time for a big stout.

MHB

 

[Batz]

I think Nitrogen comes out of solution slower than CO2 (as it is a bigger molecule) which is why pubs use it (and now some tyre places use it in place of oxygen).

Tyre places use compressed air I thought,using oxygen would give a new meaning to "blow out"

Batz

 

[Guest Lurker]

Tyre places use compressed air I thought,using oxygen would give a new meaning to "blow out"

Batz

yeah, which of course means that tyre places actually use mostly nitrogen, given that 78% of air is nitrogen

 

[ausdb]

yeah, which of course means that tyre places actually use mostly nitrogen, given that 78% of air is nitrogen

Yeah but filling with 100% N means tyre pressures stay more constant as heat builds up, which probably means bugger all in a passenger car tyre but a big difference in a racing car setup.

 

[Vlad the Pale Aler]

sorry, just read the topic title and got the wrong end of the stick