Barleywine - Biab?

[whitegoose]

Hey all, I'm a BIAB brewer (40L crown urn, concealed element) and I want to do a big American Barelywine. I've put a recipe and process together, only to find a plethora of stuff on the web talking about how BIAB isn't suited to big beers. It;s hard to get to the bottom of it all, but it seems to be related to a limit to the amount of sugar you can get out of grains in a full volume mash?? I might be misinterpreting.

Anyway, I have no intention to brew a full batch, so I figure I can get as close to my target as possible and then boil the shit out of it, or possible add some DME.

FWIW, the recipe is as follows:

American Barleywine

Original Gravity (OG): 1.100 (P): 23.8
Final Gravity (FG): 1.025 (P): 6.3
Alcohol (ABV): 9.83 %
Colour (SRM): 12.8 (EBC): 25.2
Bitterness (IBU): 105.2 (Average)

82% Pale Ale Malt
10% Vienna
5% Carared
2% Wheat Malt
1% Chocolate, Pale

1.5 g/L Columbus (14.2% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
1.5 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil)
1.5 g/L Cascade (7.8% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
1.5 g/L Columbus (14.2% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
2 g/L Cascade (7.8% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
2 g/L Columbus (14.2% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
2 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)


Single step Infusion at 66C for 90 Minutes.
Boil for 120 Minutes

My starting water volume wil be 24.8L and the grain bill is a total of 4.57kg. According to BrewMate and a BIAB water volume calculator spreadsheet I have, boiling for 2 hours will result in 10L of 1.100 OG Barleywine wort in the kettle.

So my questions are - will this work? Any comments on the boil time or starting mash volume or G:L ratio? Any improvements that you could suggest to ensure I get the OG up as high as specced? Bucket sparges or anything like that?

 

[Rowy]

I'm planning a big RIS and will watch this thread with bated breath......................I was thinking of just cutting the original volume but your idea of a loger boil sounds better.

 

[6tri6ple6]

My 2c

Have you considered doing a double mash?. I've had pretty good results using this method.
This is where u split your grain bill in half into 2 bags and do 2 seperate mashes in the same liquor. The first mash I aim for around 1.060, lift & squeeze, raise up to mash temp and mash in with the remaining grain. You could even throw in a sparge step to get a few extra points and boil for a bit longer.

More discussion here:-
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...49106&st=20

Cheers
Richard

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

had a bit of a Disaster with mine but that was just the bag.

No real drama's after that.... So yes it can be done, I ended up with 15 ltrs of 1.105 and only used about 35ltrs of the volume in my keggle

 

[Steve@PMF82]

Yeah i say forget about your batch size.

Concentrate on the quality, If you only get a lesser amount of wort but hit your OG, who cares...

Then worry about pitching shiploads of active healthy yeast so you get a good clean ferment that does not stall.

 

[Markbeer]

Hi

If you are only going to intend on using 4.57KG of grain, I would be suggesting to up that to 6KG or so, so you have a better chance of reaching the SG. You can always dilute but if you are way short the alternative will be to boil for way too long.

Also be ready to adjust the hops depending on the pre-boil gravity.

Cheers

mark

 

[TidalPete]

You can always get away with replacing "X" %age of grains with the same number of GOOD QUALITY LME to save brewday space & time as a local brewer sometimes does. Never needed to do this myself & not promising the same result as with an all-grain mash but the 'suck it and see' principle applies if you're keen to give it a go?
Repeat "GOOD QUALITY LME" not the normal shite usually sold by YLHBS.

 

[Nick JD]

10L of 1.100 in a 40L urn? Easy.

See the 20L Stovetop thread for how to get 10L of 1.090 out of a 19L pot.

 

[whitegoose]

Thank for the tips everyone!
I have heard of "double mashing" and I am definitely considering it... but I also am looking for a slightly more lazy approach, and hoping that the fact I'm happy to go for a small batch size helps in that regard!

Nick - Are you talking about the "stovetop 20L aussie lager" thread? I must be blind...What is the technique for getting 10L of 1.090 out of a 19L pot? Is it the super fine crush?

I think I'm going to give this a go next Saturday using my original technique as a bit of an experiment, as nowbody has shot it down in flames. By my calculations using the exact same recipe but with a 60 minute boil I'm making 15.8L of 1.063... and that seems very achievable... then boiling for another 60 minutes will bring it to 10L of 1.100 or there abouts.

 

[Nick JD]

Nick - Are you talking about the "stovetop 20L aussie lager" thread? I must be blind...What is the technique for getting 10L of 1.090 out of a 19L pot? Is it the super fine crush?

In that thread 4kg of grain is mashed in 12L of water. It's sparged with ~6L of water resulting in 15L of 1.060 wort.

This, diluted to 20L is 1.045. Boiled down to 10L is 1.090.

And that's not even pushing it. I know I can get 10L of 1.100 out of a 19L pot ... so you should be able to get close to 20L out of your urn.

Push the boundaries!

 

[katzke]

I am sure it will work. May have to fiddle with it a bit. I have never done it as I do not have the patience to wait for the wine to age.

Two things. See if you can figure a way to plan for a second running from the grain. Should be able to get a second beer. May have to use a second pot to mash and cube it. Most important, plan on setting on the Barley Wine for a year. It really takes that long to age well. Leave it in the fermentor as long as you can. Transfer to a secondary for a months or longer to age before you bottle. I loaned out a small glass carboy for a Barley Wine, he bottled way to early and the first sample was only ok. The second was great and if I had waited longer it would have been fantastic. He just did not take me seriously when I told him to leave it in the carboy for 6 months.

 

[whitegoose]

I am sure it will work. May have to fiddle with it a bit. I have never done it as I do not have the patience to wait for the wine to age.

Two things. See if you can figure a way to plan for a second running from the grain. Should be able to get a second beer. May have to use a second pot to mash and cube it. Most important, plan on setting on the Barley Wine for a year. It really takes that long to age well. Leave it in the fermentor as long as you can. Transfer to a secondary for a months or longer to age before you bottle. I loaned out a small glass carboy for a Barley Wine, he bottled way to early and the first sample was only ok. The second was great and if I had waited longer it would have been fantastic. He just did not take me seriously when I told him to leave it in the carboy for 6 months.

You think I need to leave it in the fermentor as long as possible? That makes me nervous - I never rack to secondary and the longest I would be game to leave it on the yeast cake would be 3 weeks. What is the logic behind leaving it in the fermentor for that long? I plan to cellar the bottles for 12 months - I would have thought it was okay to bottle as soon as target gravity was reached, and I've read that I should bottle with slightly less sugar than usual as the yeast will find a way to eat more of the sugars from the original wort over the 12 months in the cellar.

 

[tiprya]

Beer conditions more quickly in bulk, so leaving it longer will allow it to taste better faster.

Reading around here and elsewhere, on a homebrew scale, it doesn't seem like autolysis is a concern for a long time (perhaps even up to a few months).

 

[katzke]

Beer conditions more quickly in bulk, so leaving it longer will allow it to taste better faster.

Reading around here and elsewhere, on a homebrew scale, it doesn't seem like autolysis is a concern for a long time (perhaps even up to a few months).

Agree. Not sure it conditions faster, just better in bulk.

You may find a barley wine held at temp possibly will not be done in 3 weeks. It is a very big beer and I would not even look at it for 3 weeks. I have left IPAs and other beers on the yeast for 3 weeks or longer when I got busy. Tasted great and even won ribbons.

I think you would be ahead if you begged or borrowed a glass carboy to age it in after racking. I would not be comfortable leaving it in plastic for months.

I would rack it if you are going to bulk age. No difference in doing that or leaving it in a bottle for a year. Yeast is yeast and it is still there.

You will need a way to keep the temp within limits. The primary fermentation is the most critical. Even aging you should make sure it is comfortable. When it is time to bottle you may need to add yeast. Not sure and you will have plenty of time to research that while it is aging. If you are worried about letting it set on the yeast for a few weeks do some googling and see what others are doing with Barley wines. Unless things have changed in the last 2 years or my mind is playing tricks on me, I think you will find this sound advice.