Banana milkshake stout

[morkai999]

Hello all,

I am new to home brewing and have only so far brewed using kits as well as a simple cider and a mead. I have just got myself some new kit so I can BIAB using a 40L water urn. I have come up with this recipe but I need some advice on the mash and boil details. Also any other advice or comments are welcome.

Thanks.


Banana milkshake stout

Type: Sweet stout
Brew method: All grain BIAB (water urn)
Batch size: 20L
Boil size: 28L
Original grav: 1.073
Final grav: 1.024
ABV: 6.5%
IBU: 20.39
SRM: 40.00
Mash time:
Mash temp
Boil time:
Boil temp:

4.5kg Golden Promise 67.7%
0.5kg Chocolate Malt 7.5%
0.2kg Dark crystal malt 3%
0.2kg Black patent 3%
0.5kg Flaked oats 7.5%
0.3kg Flaked barley 4.5%
0.45kg Lactose 6.8%

East kent goldings pellets 35g (60mins)
WHIRFLOC half tablet (10mins)
Mashed ripe bananas 500g (5mins)

Yeast: Wyeast 1099 - Whitbread Ale
Frementation temp: 19C

500g Banana added to fermentor after a week

I know the banana may not show up too much in the taste as the sugars will be fermented out. But I am hoping it will give the beer an interesting body and maybe a slight banana after taste.

 

[mxd]

for the banana you could use a wheat yeast 3068 ?? and ferment around 22 deg

 

[stakka82]

I know it's cheating but I would use banana essence, wouldn't think you would get a lot of flavour from the banana addition

 

[morkai999]

Thanks for the feedback.

I did think about using a wheat yeast but I'm worried that if the temperature varies too much it may come out as a clove taste plus I'd like to keep it as an English style stout if I can.

I could make it and if it isn't banana tasting enough then add essence or a banana liqueur before bottling.

Any ideas on the mash temp, time, boil temp and time?

I'm also tempted to swap out the black patent for something like brown or amber malt

 

[NewtownClown]

I know it's cheating but I would use banana essence, wouldn't think you would get a lot of flavour from the banana addition

Essences stand out as essence - fake, chemical, almost medicinal. Like a banana lolly, i.e. no bananas were harmed in the production of...

 

[dicko]

I would think that you are extremely adventurous adding banana to the fermenter after 1 week.

My concern would be wild yeasts or just contamination from the banana.

How will you treat the banana before you add it into the fermenter?

If it was mine I would drop the black malt and add roast barley in its place and maybe up the addition by a couple of percent.

 

[Midnight Brew]

Fruit in brewing beers in my opinion is a difficult thing to do and to get right. I think being new to all grain you should make a recipe that is a little less complicated. There is a lot going on in that grain bill and a simpler approach will make the jump to all grain a less complex.

There's plenty of great stout recipes on this forum so maybe give one of them a crack and use 3068 @21-23 to chase that banana flavour you're after. Work from there and slowly change the recipe to understand what each ingredient does. Keep it simple and brew on.

 

[GuyQLD]

Midnight Brew, on 29 Jun 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

I think being new to all grain you should make a recipe that is a little less complicated. There is a lot going on in that grain bill and a simpler approach will make the jump to all grain a less complex

Apart from why you would want to put banana in a stout... Well that's your thing. But the above advice is probably the most important thing ever said to a new all grain brewer. Practice on stuff that's known to work and get an idea of what things do before you reinvent the wheel.

 

[morkai999]

Hmmm I did worry about wild yeast as well. I was thinking I could boil them but then they would just turn into a thick liquid.

Fair enough I will drop the banana and maybe use them for a banana wine. After having Well's banana bread beer I was hoping to harness the banana taste into a stout.

I will simplify my recipe and make a sweet stout.

 

[Mardoo]

There are Well's Banana Bread clone recipes online. Maybe give one of those a go.

 

[hoppy2B]

Hi Morkai,

The banana flesh should be sterile inside the banana skin, so if you are careful and tip it into a sanitized container and mash it with a sanitized implement then I imagine you will get away with putting it straight into the ferment vessel.

Your other option would be to mash it with your grain. Perhaps put it through a blender and tip the liquid through your BIAB bag.

 

[manticle]

Banana's sterile?

Sterile as in unable to reproduce yes. Sterile as in micro-organism free? I don't know and I like learning new things but my doubt levels are very high.

 

[NewtownClown]

Cooper's kit yeast at high temps throws a LOT of banana (banana bread)...

Then there is Ross's BananAmber...

Seeing as banana is "packaged" in a thick skin I would be as concerned about the presence of yeast and fermenting organisms as I would be about airborne ones.... yet, I would still "pasteurise" the fruit in a saucepan, keeping it under 80c (although I don't think pectin is an issue with banana).

I reckon, with the roast malts in the grain bill, it will be more of a banoffee pie stout than a banana milkshake stout

 

[morkai999]

The bananas I have have been left in the freezer so they are over ripe and frozen. I thought I would peel them, boil them and then put them in a muslin bag.

The main reason I went with milkshake is because of the lactose but banoffee pie could also work

 

[mr_wibble]

There's also dried banana "chips", they're not very banana-ry though.

Wouldn't boiling bananas drive off the flavour ?

 

[seehuusen]

Banana's sterile?

Sterile as in unable to reproduce yes. Sterile as in micro-organism free? I don't know and I like learning new things but my doubt levels are very high.

As far as I understand it, the wild yeast are on the outside of the banana peel, so the fruit itself should be free from wild yeast and most micro organisms.

Many report great results with just freezing the fruit, thaw it, then dump into secondary. When dumping into a yeast/ alcohol filled environment, newly introduced organisms have very little chance of thriving, thus not imparting ill flavours to your brew.

Personally, my 2 trials so far have both been pasturized, i.e. dumped into the boil at 10mins, but I'll probably go with the above method next. Key for the blueberries in my case, would be to wash them thuroughly as the skin goes in too...

I spoke to HBHB on the weekend, who recommended another additive for the paranoid (which would kill most things), but the name eludes me at the moment.


I found this link, which is a pretty good source of information relating to the topic of adding fruit: http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/679-fruit-brew-part-2-techniques

Cheers
Martin

 

[hoppy2B]

Banana's sterile?

Sterile as in unable to reproduce yes. Sterile as in micro-organism free? I don't know and I like learning new things but my doubt levels are very high.

Actually manticle, you may be interested to learn that in Nam they used coconuts to transfuse wounded soldiers in the field who had lost a lot of blood. I saw it on a tv program years ago and I am pretty sure they said the coconut milk was sterile. It did the job of keeping the soldiers alive when they had nothing else to transfuse them with.

 

[manticle]

My understanding is that coconut milk has been used for intravenous rehydration during wartime medical treatment in the past.
This doesn't suggest anything about the inside of bananas being sterile which is a very specific state when discussing microbiology. Maybe less prone to certain bacteria? Possibly. I don't claim to know but I still highly doubt they are a sterile environment and coconuts used during wartime are not changing my mind. My mind is open to being changed if and when it should be on the subject but I'm not sure why you are advising people on how to use fruit in beer based on a memory of someone using a different fruit for another purpose once upon a time in the past.

 

[dicko]

If you save the dregs from a Coopers Pale Ale yeast and build a starter then underpitch by about half the required cell count and then ferment it at 22 deg c or even a bit higher then it should produce a banana flavour to you stout.
Many breweries create flavour in a beer by manipulating how the yeast perform their duties in a fermenting wort.

Good luck with the brew

 

[hoppy2B]

Coconut water is meant to be sterile according to Wikipedia and some other sources.

I've read that fruits encapsulating a seed are normally sterile as well. I'd be extremely surprised if banana flesh wasn't sterile.