Any one seen this before!?

[charlie_b]

Found it on the top of my mash when removed, it was like a thin blanket on mash out then broke up when sparging

 

[MHB]

If its a translucent jelly, did you add a bunch of salts?

 

[charlie_b]

Kinda, more matty though. Yeah have been playing with chemistry. I usually add a tsp calcium carbonate and yeast nutrient. But also added a 1/4 tsp of k meta this time

 

[charlie_b]

It's all through the mash too

 

[MHB]

Ok In that case its probably Glucan jell. Would be good to know your grain bill and mash temperature regime. Have seen American Ale malt do that.
I CBA spending half a day discussing this again.
DO NOT add Carbonate unless you have a measured pH Lower than 5.2. Chloride, Sulphate, Lactate sure, use them but not carbonate it raises the pH
Do Not add Met to the mash. It can be used to treat water to remove Chlorine, but you need to be using the right amount and its better to use it the night before, the right dose used properly is a good thing. It consumes the Chlorine, too much in solution can do strange things.
Normally about 3 times the Cl in your water is recommended. You can assume there is around 1mg/L added to town water (well a bit less by the time it reaches your tap) so work on 3mg/L (Bisulfite) about 20% more as KMet but call it 3mg/L, so in 35L you would need 35*3=105mg or about 0.1g.
I think you might be being a bit heavy handed and at the wrong time.
Mark

 

[charlie_b]

Ok In that case its probably Glucan jell. Would be good to know your grain bill and mash temperature regime. Have seen American Ale malt do that.
I CBA spending half a day discussing this again.
DO NOT add Carbonate unless you have a measured pH Lower than 5.2. Chloride, Sulphate, Lactate sure, use them but not carbonate it raises the pH
Do Not add Met to the mash. It can be used to treat water to remove Chlorine, but you need to be using the right amount and its better to use it the night before, the right dose used properly is a good thing. It consumes the Chlorine, too much in solution can do strange things.
Normally about 3 times the Cl in your water is recommended. You can assume there is around 1mg/L added to town water (well a bit less by the time it reaches your tap) so work on 3mg/L (Bisulfite) about 20% more as KMet but call it 3mg/L, so in 35L you would need 35*3=105mg or about 0.1g.
I think you might be being a bit heavy handed and at the wrong time.
Mark

Thanks Mark,

Firstly my apologies, it was calcium sulphate, not carbonate I used. What're these stage things with too much k meta!?

Any resources you can recommend in regards to chem additions and their timing?

It was 70% pale ale malt and 30 wheat.
I added all the chems about 2 hours before mashing in.

Temps:
mins. temp.
10. 45
15. 55
60. 67
20. 72
5. 77

 

[MHB]

With a lot of protein in solution Bisulfite (not the K or Na part but the SO3-) can complex into a gel. Normally only happens at higher pH than we find in a wort. I would really like to know the pH of your mash, I suspect its too high
Your mash regime has a Glucan and Protein rest so you have a lot of both in solution. You also have a long rest at 67 and longer by the time you ramp from there to 77, comes to something like 90minutes so some of your proteins are going to denature and gel. Its a pretty long mash over 2 hours all in.
A trifle obscure, I suspect its no one thing but a bit of a combination of things adding up to a lot of gunk.

Two questions left, how much CaSO4 did you add - was that the 1 Tsp?
Did the gel stop your recirculation, blocking up the flow of wort through the grain bed?
Mark

 

[mje1980]

The formation of forks in the mash is a common issue, don’t worry the beer will turn out fine

 

[charlie_b]

Cheers Mark, I appreciate the engagement.

Yep it was one tea spoon of the CaSO4. And no real blockage. It was a little slow in the recirculation but nothing out of the ordinary. I got a really good extraction (this I'm still working on but since I started the step mash, where I used to get <1.05 I'm now getting close to 1.06).

Another thing I changed this time was I put a silicon hose on the recirculation arm to be more gentle on the mash. So it may have broken this up previously.

Since I started the step mash the outliers in this batch were, more wheat, the hose and k meta. Sorry I didn't get the pH, when should this be measured? And what pH are we going for?

Is there a good resource you know of for water Chem and its side effects? Seems there is a lot to consider with, what to add, how much, and when to add it.

 

[MHB]

First I would go to Braukaiser and read the relevant sections (better to read the whole thing over time)
Then download Bru'n Water to do your calculations.
There are other options but those two tell no lies and will give you a fair basic knowledge.
Mark

 

[charlie_b]

Legend, cheers Mark