Another Go At A Lager

[lobo]

hi all,

while i consider my ales to not be far off the mark, my lagers have so far all been really bad. it may be because i have really only used liquid yeast and not made a starter (wyeast activator thrown straight in), or because said brewing was done in summer whre my plate chiller can only get down to around 24deg. (i fermented it at the right temp in a fridge with fridgemate), or it could have to do with the fact that i have always used spring water with my lagers(adelaide tapwater with my ales)

this weekend i am planning to have another go at a lager, i have failed miserably in the past and hope to right some of the wrongs.

here is the recipe.

07-10-2010 lobo's 2010 lager

A ProMash Brewing Session Report
--------------------------------

Brewing Date: Saturday July 10, 2010
Head Brewer: Luke
Asst Brewer:
Recipe: lobo's 2010 lager

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (Kg): 4.55
Anticipated OG: 1.046 Plato: 11.39
Anticipated EBC: 9.8
Anticipated IBU: 21.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Actual OG: 1.046 Plato: 11.44
Actual FG: 1.011 Plato: 2.81

Alc by Weight: 3.60 by Volume: 4.60 From Measured Gravities.
ADF: 75.4 RDF 62.7 Apparent & Real Degree of Fermentation.


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
96.7 4.40 kg. JWM Export Pilsner Australia 1.037 3
3.3 0.15 kg. Weyermann Melanoidin Germany 1.037 93

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10.00 g. Hallertau Northern Brewer Pellet 9.60 13.7 60 min.
20.00 g. sapphire Pellet 4.80 4.6 20 min.
20.00 g. sapphire Pellet 4.80 2.7 10 min.


Yeast
-----

DCL Yeast S-189 SafLager German Lager


Mash Schedule
-------------


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mash 5 30 64 64 Infuse 73 11.39 2.50
mashout 5 30 78 78 Infuse 99 8.74 4.42




ok, so this time i intend to pitch 2pks of dry yeast, will get the wort down to a max of 18deg, use a half and half mix of tap water/springwater.

i have in the past even tried a step mash and a decoction (i think).

does anyone have any suggestions on the recipe etc.

thanks,

Luke

 

[warra48]

My first few attempts at lagers also were not a success, although I drank them to give me some impetus to improve.

What finally changed things for me was to build up a large 5 litres or so starter of Wyeast. I made a BoPils, and after chilling, I put my fermenter in my brewing fridge to get it down to 10C. The starter was also in there, so they were the same temperature. I pitched just the starter slurry, cold at 10C. I'm convinced cold pitching for lagers is better than pitching warmer and trying to drag the brew down after pitching warmer. I fermented for 3 weeks, and let it come up to about 18C for a couple of days before racking to a jerry can for lagering. Lagered for 8 weeks.

Your recipe looks OK to me but, personally, I'm not a great fan of melanoidin malt. However, 150 gr should be fine.
For me, the IBU at 21.1 is too low. I like my beers hoppy when it suits the style, but you may not.

The 2 packs of dry yeast are a good move. Make sure you rehydrate it before pitching.

 

[cdbrown]

I received some tips from kirem a while back
Swiss lager is quite a good strain of dried yeast which ferments nice and clean. Rehydrate 2 packets in cooled boiled water prior to pitching will reduce the strain on the yeast and give them a good start.

I have pitched when the wort was around 12C and then when first signs of ferment drop to 10C. After about 4 days I then started to turn the temp down by 1C each day till reached 5C at which point I racked to secondary and left to finish off. Doing this really reduced the time spent lagering as the unwanted byproducts weren't produced as readily as if it were fermented around 12C.

 

[bconnery]

I have a simple lager recipe guideline, roughly german pilsner in style, that is easy to formulate and make.

90/10 pilsner/munich ( you can drop the munich but I like it)
Bitter to 25-35 IBUs (or slightly higher, I go the high end) with your choice of noble or NZ hops. (Others could work, this is just what I've done)
Hops at 60 and then a flavour addition of 1.23g/litre (rounded unless your scales are really really good). This is a ratio I got from a recipe on here somewhere, sluggerdog I think it was, and it works well in my book.

Lager yeast of choice. If using liquid definitely make a starter.
Ideally pitch cold with more yeast or you can pitch at around 17 and then cool it.

I like the convenience of dry yeast, which is why s189 was my yeast of choice. A great clean yeast.

Ferment cold, between 9-15 if you can, although s189 is forgiving, for as long as it takes. Diacetyl rest if you like to and/or if the beer needs it.

 

[jakub76]

Pitch cold, ferment temp or lower. Dry yeast should be sweet but I use liquid and make a starter and try to pitch active yeast.

After about 4 days I then started to turn the temp down by 1C each day

I would highly recommend doing the opposite. After about a week at 10C I raise the temp to 12.5C, just trying to keep the yeast active. It also allows the yeast to clean up any diacetyl and any other off flavours. If you lower the temp the yeast will go to sleep before they get a chance to do a clean up.

 

[brewmasterz]

Pitch cold, ferment temp or lower. Dry yeast should be sweet but I use liquid and make a starter and try to pitch active yeast.

I would highly recommend doing the opposite. After about a week at 10C I raise the temp to 12.5C, just trying to keep the yeast active. It also allows the yeast to clean up any diacetyl and any other off flavours. If you lower the temp the yeast will go to sleep before they get a chance to do a clean up.

+1 - My last lager stalled when it dropped below 10C, when it was later in the fermentation stage. Definately start lower and raise the temp up slightly.

 

[superdave]

Whenever I use S189 it stalls on me at 10C and lower so just brew at 12. Curious to find out how to keep it going below 12 so I can improve my lagers.

+1 - My last lager stalled when it dropped below 10C, when it was later in the fermentation stage. Definately start lower and raise the temp up slightly.

 

[jimi]

You've identified two areas to work on - pitching rate and pitching temp. Here's a lazy way of addressing both and it tends to be my general practise
1) Cube / no chill (i know some don't like to with lagers, but give it a shot). After letting the normal cooling course take place for a day or so. Place you cube in your fermenting fridge and bring it down to an appropriate temp to pitch cold. If you're weather is like ours this might not be required.
2) Go visit your favourite micro and if they are good blokes and you ask them politely enough they have a huge amount of yeast to share (bring along a sanitised small bucket). You mightn't get to pick which lager yeast you get, but it should answer some Qs for you.
3) Thank them politely buy one of their best big beers, go home and put lots of yeast to work on a wert that is at the right temp.

Piece of cake. You've addressed your two areas, got to know your micro mates better and all with very little effort

 

[lobo]

thanks to all who replied, some good thoughts and will be using some of them come saturday.

cheers,

Lobo

 

[HoppingMad]

The last lager I did, I found that adding a diacetyl rest, and racking the beer off the yeast cake prior to lagering it did wonders and resulted in a really clean tasting beer. Given the time that many people lager (sometimes 6-8 weeks), having a beer on yeast that long is a recipe for autolysis infections I reckon.

One of the helpful links I found researching for doing this lager also recommends early racking:
Fermenting Lagers

If you're unsure about diacetyl rests there's tons of info on AHB about them. The link I've supplied doesn't mention them a great deal. I did one because my beer was smelling pretty bad directly after airlock activity ceased and it cleaned it right up in the space of a day after I raised the temp up to around 20 degrees. If your beer is smelling clean after ferment or in the late stages of ferment I believe you don't need them from what I've read. You can step the beer down into lagering phase no worries. But in my case it was helpful to do the rest prior to this to get rid of the bad flavours and let the beer clean itself up.

All the best with it, Hopper.

 

[steve78]

The last lager I did, I found that adding a diacetyl rest, and racking the beer off the yeast cake prior to lagering it did wonders and resulted in a really clean tasting beer. Given the time that many people lager (sometimes 6-8 weeks), having a beer on yeast that long is a recipe for autolysis infections I reckon.

One of the helpful links I found researching for doing this lager also recommends early racking:
Fermenting Lagers

If you're unsure about diacetyl rests there's tons of info on AHB about them. The link I've supplied doesn't mention them a great deal. I did one because my beer was smelling pretty bad directly after airlock activity ceased and it cleaned it right up in the space of a day after I raised the temp up to around 20 degrees. If your beer is smelling clean after ferment or in the late stages of ferment I believe you don't need them from what I've read. You can step the beer down into lagering phase no worries. But in my case it was helpful to do the rest prior to this to get rid of the bad flavours and let the beer clean itself up.

All the best with it, Hopper.

Mate, get yourself a mashmaster (or other) temp adjuster for a brewing fridge and brew in one of them. I am in SE QLD, and in summer you need one to hold constant temps. My first lager was good ferment wise, but overhopped it. Your beers will be that much better cause you can stabilise the brewing temp at around 12C or whatever the yeast prefers, and raise for any diacetyl rests and crash chill and lager quickly. That should solve most of the problems. I could not do lagers before I got my brewing freezer and temp setter....