Amber Ale Ferment Stalled?

[moodgett]

Hi All,

have finally put down another brew after a while of not brewing, at the brother in laws house (his first time brew)
anyways here are the specs

1.5kg Tin Morgans Amber Ale
1kg tin Coopers Light Malt Extract
pitched morgans kit yeast but it didnt start (dropped to the bottom, so pitched another kit yeast 514)
Fuggles tea bag steeped
filled fermenter to 21L

og 1.041
fg after 10 days 1.020

should i swirl it around? move the fermenter or re pitch a new yeast?
i have read other similar topics but read different opinions for different scenarios.

Cheers in advance

 

[manticle]

What has been the ferment temp?

First step is always a gentle swish (gentle - no splashing), second step is to raise the temp (no higher than 22), third step if all fails is to pitch new yeast.

Since you are all malt your FG can be expected to be higher than a straight kit/ kilo due to the unfermentable sugars in the mix.

At a very rough guess (no software invloved) I would estimate you getting something between 1012 and 1016.

 

[moodgett]

What has been the ferment temp?

First step is always a gentle swish (gentle - no splashing), second step is to raise the temp (no higher than 22), third step if all fails is to pitch new yeast.

Since you are all malt your FG can be expected to be higher than a straight kit/ kilo due to the unfermentable sugars in the mix.

At a very rough guess (no software invloved) I would estimate you getting something between 1012 and 1016.

Cheers Manticle

the brew temp has been 18-19 degrees under his stairs

i will give him a call, should i get him to sanitise the paddle and stir or get him to spin the fermenter?

 

[manticle]

Don't stir. Just a gentle swirl of the actual fermenter. Too much activity can lead to oxidation and bad flavours resulting from that.

The other trick you can do is to rack to a different fermenter. This supposedly rouses the yeast back into suspension. I do rack but for other reasons so I can't vouch for this - in some ways it seems counter intuitive as, although you are swirling you are also separating the brew from a majority of the yeast cake. Others swear by it. I have just tried it for an AG stout that's sitting at 1022 and not moving (did start at 1067 and does contain lactose though) so I'll see how she goes.

These steps in this order:

1. swirl
2. warm (not above 22)
3. Rack
4. Pitch new yeast

 

[moodgett]

Don't stir. Just a gentle swirl of the actual fermenter. Too much activity can lead to oxidation and bad flavours resulting from that.

The other trick you can do is to rack to a different fermenter. This supposedly rouses the yeast back into suspension. I do rack but for other reasons so I can't vouch for this - in some ways it seems counter intuitive as, although you are swirling you are also separating the brew from a majority of the yeast cake. Others swear by it. I have just tried it for an AG stout that's sitting at 1022 and not moving (did start at 1067 and does contain lactose though) so I'll see how she goes.

These steps in this order:

1. swirl
2. warm (not above 22)
3. Rack
4. Pitch new yeast

cheers manticle youre a legend mate

will do :lol:

 

[silvana]

Swirl for sure.

Not that its going to help now, but next time you might want to chuck the kit yeast in the bin and use a Safe S-04 or US-05. The kit yeast are usualy not in the best shape and the Safe will give a better fermentation character. Worth the $5 for sure.

Good luck geting baby firing again

 

[manticle]

cheers manticle youre a legend mate

will do :lol:

Not wanting to insult your intelligence if you already know this but if you do try racking (transferring the brew to a different fermenter) use either a hose from the tap (food grade silicon, clean and sanitised) or a siphoning device (also cleaned and sanitised) - don't just pour the beer in. Same problem with oxidation previously mentioned may result if you splash so everything should be gentle at this point. Just thought I should add.

 

[buttersd70]

in some ways it seems counter intuitive as, although you are swirling you are also separating the brew from a majority of the yeast cake. Others swear by it.
These steps in this order:

1. swirl
2. warm (not above 22)
3. Rack
4. Pitch new yeast

It's a bit like being stuck behind an old fart with a walker in the queue for a buffet....get the old bugger out of my way, I'm hungry. The yeast that has already flocced out is late in it's cycle, is lazy, fat, and dropping to the bottom....the yeast that is in suspension is earlier in it's cycle, and is what's doing the business.

Racking also does two other main things...firstly, the motion forces some of the co2 out of solution. (co2 being a biproduct of fermentation. If you crap your pants at work and have to sit in it all day, I'm sure your productivity would decrease :lol: ), and secondly, it allows for a small uptake of o2 (which is rapidly consumed by the yeast edit: NOT to be confused with deliberately introducing oxygen via splashing. Thats bad.). It's basically the same principles that are used for secondary fermentation; the main difference being that it is done to kickstart a lagging fermentation, rather than for the purpose of maturation.

 

[moodgett]

Not wanting to insult your intelligence if you already know this but if you do try racking (transferring the brew to a different fermenter) use either a hose from the tap (food grade silicon, clean and sanitised) or a siphoning device (also cleaned and sanitised) - don't just pour the beer in. Same problem with oxidation previously mentioned may result if you splash so everything should be gentle at this point. Just thought I should add.

Cheers mate no offense taken, i have been thinking about moving to racking, do i just get a cube from bunnings with a tap fitting?
also after secondary, do i have to re rack to another vessel if i want to bulk prime or just add dex and bottle from the cube?

 

[buttersd70]

Cheers mate no offense taken, i have been thinking about moving to racking, do i just get a cube from bunnings with a tap fitting?
also after secondary, do i have to re rack to another vessel if i want to bulk prime or just add dex and bottle from the cube?

yes to the first question, or alternatively another fermenter.....
the second q is a matter of opinion...my opinion is yes, transfer again for bulk priming. Others consider that if you're careful not to disturb the sediment, you can bulk prime directly with a gentle stir from the top.

 

[manticle]

It's a bit like being stuck behind an old fart with a walker in the queue for a buffet....get the old bugger out of my way, I'm hungry. The yeast that has already flocced out is late in it's cycle, is lazy, fat, and dropping to the bottom....the yeast that is in suspension is earlier in it's cycle, and is what's doing the business.

Racking also does two other main things...firstly, the motion forces some of the co2 out of solution. (co2 being a biproduct of fermentation. If you crap your pants at work and have to sit in it all day, I'm sure your productivity would decrease :lol: ), and secondly, it allows for a small uptake of o2 (which is rapidly consumed by the yeast edit: NOT to be confused with deliberately introducing oxygen via splashing. Thats bad.). It's basically the same principles that are used for secondary fermentation; the main difference being that it is done to kickstart a lagging fermentation, rather than for the purpose of maturation.

It's not me who minds the soiled pants so much - it's the bloke who has to work with me who gets shirty.

Cheers for the explanation. I figured the movement was akin to swirling in introducing yeast back into supsension and adding a small amount of oxygen but the analogy helps.

@Moodgett: As butters says - cube or fermenter. A fermenter is good because it allows you to get two brews going at once.

As for racking to bulk prime - I'm of the school that doesn't. You do need to make sure you dissolve your sugar in boiling water (stand to cool below at least 40 deg before adding) regardless of whether you rack or whether you add to the top. Again, avoid splashing. As for disturbing sediment - I always allow 30 mins after adding sugar for everything to settle and I'm gentle with the addition. In most cases I've already racked for a secondary fermentation phase so the amount of sediment distrubed is minimal.

 

[buttersd70]

glad the analogy helped...but, jeez, the stuff I come up with after a couple.... :blink:

 

[manticle]

Next week you could combine the old codger with the incontinence to save on word count. Then I'd like to see you introduce a fish into the entire scenario.

 

[moodgett]

cheers guys i appreciate the info,

well the brother in law has checked it out and its still on 1.020 after 24hrs
until i get another fermenter, thinking of getting one from bunnings + tap, maybe ill just pitch another yeast,does it have to be the same or just throw on a us-05?

also another question on bulk priming calculator, had a look at the one from this site, with the volume in the fermenter, do you have to enter original volume, or somehow guesstimate the amount at the end of fermentation? taking into account the water level drops.

 

[manticle]

Amount to be bottled..

Use the same yeast.

 

[moodgett]

Amount to be bottled..

Use the same yeast.

sorry mate

i cant believe i had that brainfart, what in the hell was i thinking.

next brew im definitely racking to secondary and bulk priming

 

[moodgett]

*UPDATE*
well threw new yeast on my amber ale on saturday afternoon, put the lid on and it went nuts in the airlock department, then steadied down to a consistent bloop, apparently has stopped again so will be getting bro in law to check gravity this arvo.
if it has finished this time, should i just bulk prime and bottle or rack to secondary, note it has been 2 weeks 2 days in primary?


also on another note did our first bulk prime with his beer the same afternoon, did tap to tap transfer into a "bunnings fermenter" and food grade drinking water hose, all i can say is i will never individually prime bottles ever again

 

[moodgett]

ok

the fg has dropped to 1.016, reckon just wait a couple of days and re gravity then bottle?

 

[Bizier]

I have had a few stalls after my electric blanket died from humdity in my fermenting fridge, I had to leave the fridge door open all of out recent warm Sunday, and it has been a constant 18 since.

I got a little composite pine "lazy susan" thing from Ikea.. it is great for rousing your fermenter with a bit of a spin. I just roused a beer a minute ago that looks terminal at 1.012, but I really don't trust it after a few batches of over fizzy beer from slobbish Ringwood yeast that did not finish its job.

Wait until it has reached a terminal gravity and let it sit for a few more if you can, it will clean up the beer a little.

 

[haysie]

An analogous thread was popping around last nite. Thanks BribieG What a word.
All the above points are good, perhaps not in my preferred order i.e stalled, transfer the lot. Works better than swirling.
Number#1 Should be, Pitch more yeast. Overpitch is always better than underpitch IMO, 3068 users kick me at your pleasure.