Advise Pls: First Liquid Yeast

[Diesel80]

Hi All,

as title and description state, today i will pitch my first liquid yeast.

I have the cube in the chesty chilling down to 10 atm BUT:

It is 2308 Munich Lager yeast and packet says to smack it at 21-24 degrees and await it to bubble.
Then it states i need to add it to 18-21 deg wort and look for signs of fermentation,

then drop it to desired temp.

I though that i would need to add it closer to 10-14 degrees, are the instructions generic on the packet?

What do others do?

Cheers D80

 

[going down a hill]

The instructions are generic, which is a bit stupid. I pitch my lagers at the temp which they will be brewed at, make a starter for the yeast to kick things off because you will probably be underpitching.

 

[donburke]

Hi All,

as title and description state, today i will pitch my first liquid yeast.

I have the cube in the chesty chilling down to 10 atm BUT:

It is 2308 Munich Lager yeast and packet says to smack it at 21-24 degrees and await it to bubble.
Then it states i need to add it to 18-21 deg wort and look for signs of fermentation,

then drop it to desired temp.

I though that i would need to add it closer to 10-14 degrees, are the instructions generic on the packet?

What do others do?

Cheers D80

If you pitch cold make a starter as you will need more yeast

you can follow the instructions but will benefit from a diacetyl rest

iget better results pitching cold with a big starter

 

[donburke]

Hi All,

as title and description state, today i will pitch my first liquid yeast.

I have the cube in the chesty chilling down to 10 atm BUT:

It is 2308 Munich Lager yeast and packet says to smack it at 21-24 degrees and await it to bubble.
Then it states i need to add it to 18-21 deg wort and look for signs of fermentation,

then drop it to desired temp.

I though that i would need to add it closer to 10-14 degrees, are the instructions generic on the packet?

What do others do?

Cheers D80

If you pitch cold make a starter as you will need more yeast

you can follow the instructions but will benefit from a diacetyl rest

iget better results pitching cold with a big starter

 

[felten]

If you're going to pitch at ~10 degrees then you need to increase the pitch rate, probably around 3-4 packets, or make a big starter depending on the beer and yeast.

By pitching warm, the yeast get the benefits of increased growth compared to pitching cold, and are better able to finish the ferment when you eventually drop the temp. (it's not best practice for lager brewing though, but it seems to work for people who use it)

The instructions are probably there for people who don't have stir plates, and don't want to buy $50 worth of yeast for 1 batch.

 

[np1962]

The following is a direct cut and paste from the Wyeast FAQ.

"15. What temperature should I pitch lagers?

More yeast (double- two packages or make a 2L starter) is required for cold fermentations. To compensate for this, pitch one package into 60-68F wort, allow fermentation to begin, and cool to desired fermentation temperature.

16. Im brewing a lager, do I need to cool my wort to fermentation temperature before adding the yeast?

There are different views on this topic. The individual brewer ultimately has to weigh the pros and cons. If a brewer is to pitch the lager yeast at fermentation temperature (55F and below) then the pitch rate needs to be increased and a slower start to fermentation should be expected. The other option is to pitch the yeast into wort (60 to 70F) and maintain temperature for 24 hours or until signs of active fermentation are evident and then cool to desired fermentation temperature."

 

[Nick JD]

Generally, lager smackpacks tend to take longer to swell, and have more likelyhood of taking a day or two if they are more than a few months old.

I've found that the wheats and the belgians even when older swell like a 15 year old's budgiesmugglers in the girls' changing rooms.

And other ales in between.

Give that smackpack a fair while to swell. You can smack it a week before you need to use it and put it back in the fridge swollen.

 

[WitWonder]

The following is a direct cut and paste from the Wyeast FAQ.

"15. What temperature should I pitch lagers?

More yeast (double- two packages or make a 2L starter) is required for cold fermentations. To compensate for this, pitch one package into 60-68F wort, allow fermentation to begin, and cool to desired fermentation temperature.

16. Im brewing a lager, do I need to cool my wort to fermentation temperature before adding the yeast?

There are different views on this topic. The individual brewer ultimately has to weigh the pros and cons. If a brewer is to pitch the lager yeast at fermentation temperature (55F and below) then the pitch rate needs to be increased and a slower start to fermentation should be expected. The other option is to pitch the yeast into wort (60 to 70F) and maintain temperature for 24 hours or until signs of active fermentation are evident and then cool to desired fermentation temperature."

For those who pitch warm and then cool, I assume one needs to be mindful of how quickly the temperature is dropped or risk putting the yeast to sleep?

 

[Nick JD]

For those who pitch warm and then cool, I assume one needs to be mindful of how quickly the temperature is dropped or risk putting the yeast to sleep?

I've found that when I pitch lager yeast in the early 20s and have my temp probe taped to the side of the fermenter and covered in neoprene, that it takes about 12 hours to get to within a degree or two of my ferment temp ... and about another 4 to get bang on and start the fridge cycling. This is a good amount of time for the yeast to breed up as there's always a nice layer of foam on top by 24 hours after pitching.

 

[fergi]

I've found that when I pitch lager yeast in the early 20s and have my temp probe taped to the side of the fermenter and covered in neoprene, that it takes about 12 hours to get to within a degree or two of my ferment temp ... and about another 4 to get bang on and start the fridge cycling. This is a good amount of time for the yeast to breed up as there's always a nice layer of foam on top by 24 hours after pitching.

nick do you think starting with a warm temp gives you any off flavours,
this is how i seem to do all my brews now, even ales, a bit warmer 20/22 until they start then down to 17/18.

havent noticed any off,s but still not sure on this method.

fergi

 

[Diesel80]

Thank you all for the replys,

After reading them, considering my options and reading some other threads here on AHB i have ordered some Lab flasks, sterile sample jars and a couple of thermometres.

Looks like i am going to dive into splitting yeast packs and producing starters.
Another day another challenge eh?


A quick question, If I split my yeast pack into 3, and use a third in a starter:
a ) Would i need to start a small starter then step it up to a larger one (I will have a 500ml and 2L lab flask available.
b ) could i grow sufficient yeast for a cold pitch into my Wort @ 12 degrees?

Cheers,
D80

 

[muthead]

Hi Guys,

Very good info on this thread, however I do have a question. I am looking at doing a pilsner and a lager at 10-12, will I need to do a starter if I am using a dry yeast or will I be okay to pitch at 10-12?

Thanks,
Mut

 

[Diesel80]

Hi Guys,

Very good info on this thread, however I do have a question. I am looking at doing a pilsner and a lager at 10-12, will I need to do a starter if I am using a dry yeast or will I be okay to pitch at 10-12?

Thanks,
Mut

Mut, if pitching cold you will likely need 2 packs of dry yeast per batch. I had issues pitching cold with 1 pack per brew. Took forever to ferment and eventually stalled until i added a second pack.

Cheers,
D80

 

[muthead]

Mut, if pitching cold you will likely need 2 packs of dry yeast per batch. I had issues pitching cold with 1 pack per brew. Took forever to ferment and eventually stalled until i added a second pack.

Cheers,
D80

Thanks mate, suspected as much but a little clarity never hurts