Adding Wood (oak) Chips

[Frank]

The high sugar levels would also be masking some of the oak that it did pick up at initial tasting. I plan on leaving in Primary for 2 weeks and then rack into keg to finish the last couple of points. I have American and French Oak staves at the moment, so I think I will put one in each keg and see how the flavours progress. It was French oak chips at approx 10g/ kg grist (5g/L wort) or close to.

 

[kirem]

Hard to say as this was an OG 1.090 stout with >15% roasted grains. :lol:

What i could taste was a woody flavour, almost earthy.

is it up to the high standards set by other oaked RIS that you may or may not have tasted?

I have done a bit with oak. and in my humble opinion I would try all the methods listed in this thread, they will all have their own characteristics and work out what you like from there.
There is an awful lot more to oak than the species (french/american) there are toasting levels, different forests give different characters etc etc. then there are different physical oak shapes. Like chips, staves, barrels. A lot of chips are very substandard in my opinion. The main problem is that a chip has many little splinters of oak that when toasted/roasted, develop a lot quicker than other parts of the chip and end up burnt. This burnt flavour then finds its way into the beer. A trick to remove some of this is to put the chips into something that you can shake or throw around and will knock all the loose oak off the chip and then throw the dust out and just use the chips. The better oak alternative producers ensure the product doesn't have these burnt bits of oak in their product.

I haven't tried addition to the mashtun, but I like the idea.
Kettle I have tried and it extracts too much oak tannin (oak harshness) for me
Primary fermentation - I have settled on adding about 1-2g/L in the fermentation - I think it helps intergrate the oak better into the flavour profile rather than having a beer with an oak flavour on top of it
Secondary and or keg - If I get enough oak from the primary fermentation I skip this oak addition, otherwise I add oak at 2-4g/L and remove the beer from oak if I think the oak is getting dominant.

and of course it comes down to what you are trying to achieve;
An oak dominant beer
A beer that is balanced with oak still detectable
or A beer that has complexing flavour from oak but it is not obvious that the complexity is from oak.

Another point is that the oak characteristic of a beer becomes more obvious for a while longer after it has been taken off oak. it is easy to add more oak, not so easy to take too much oak out.

hope some of this helps

 

[Frank]

I have done a bit with oak. and in my humble opinion I would try all the methods listed in this thread, they will all have their own characteristics and work out what you like from there.
There is an awful lot more to oak than the species (french/american) there are toasting levels, different forests give different characters etc etc. then there are different physical oak shapes. Like chips, staves, barrels.

Kirem, I currently have the following small staves:
evOAK Latitude 44 Bordeaux
evOAK Latitude 45 Rhone
evOAK American Cuvee No1
All medium toast. The chips I used were Heinrich French medium roast as well.
What are your thoughts for a RIS?

 

[geoffd]

Cheers folks, you've all been extremely helpful.
Kirem, I'm glad you were able to confirm my suspicion on the risk of harsh flavours from boiling the oak chips. I think I'll go fermenter, & pre soak in the smoothest whisk(e)y I have. I'm gonna be drinking one oaky whisk(e)y , I have a hip flask so as not to flavour the whole bottle. Think I'll have just as much fun with the spirit as I will with the beer. I wont be doing it for a couple of months, It's lager season now :icon_cheers:
kicking off with a marzen.

 

[kirem]

Kirem, I currently have the following small staves:
evOAK Latitude 44 Bordeaux
evOAK Latitude 45 Rhone
evOAK American Cuvee No1
All medium toast. The chips I used were Heinrich French medium roast as well.
What are your thoughts for a RIS?

firstly viticulturalists and oak don't really mix! Once again I prove my point, that viticulturalists really want to be winemakers. You are aware that oak staves don't need pruning and you will have to get out of the tractor to add them to the beer!

funnily enough I use evoak mocha chips, I am a big fan of the Heinrich French as well. Judging by your oaks you have probably crossed paths with the EvOak rep that happens to be a very good mate of mine, he also lives close to DrSmurto but isn't a viticulturalist and doesn't drive a range rover, so maybe you don't acknowledge him.

The Bordeaux and Rhone I have only tasted in samples at a seminar and unfortunately I can't remember which one I liked (if any).

I have also tried EvOak high toast and this is a really good oak, if you see the rep ask him for some or let me know and I will get some for you.

I think the toastier oak that display mocha type characters are good for RIS, they worked for me.

Cheers folks, you've all been extremely helpful.
Kirem, I'm glad you were able to confirm my suspicion on the risk of harsh flavours from boiling the oak chips. I think I'll go fermenter, & pre soak in the smoothest whisk(e)y I have. I'm gonna be drinking one oaky whisk(e)y , I have a hip flask so as not to flavour the whole bottle. Think I'll have just as much fun with the spirit as I will with the beer. I wont be doing it for a couple of months, It's lager season now :icon_cheers:
kicking off with a marzen.

I do what Asher suggested, just put them in a coffee mug add boiling water, wait for 2-3 minutes then tip the whole lot into the fermenter

If you also want a flavour from the spirt that has been in contact with the oak ie bourbon/whisk(e)y etc, I would grab 4-6x 50mL samples and add an increasing measured amount of the spirit of choice to the glasses and find the level that you like in the glass. If you are new to trialling for flavour and balance in this method, find the spirit concentration you like, go away for a while, have a beer or something else, preferably not the spirit of choice, then come back to the trials and confirm the concentration you like. Then do the math and add that concentration to the beer - probably in the keg otherwise you are wasting spirit.

 

[Effect]

firstly viticulturalists and oak don't really mix! Once again I prove my point, that viticulturalists really want to be winemakers. You are aware that oak staves don't need pruning and you will have to get out of the tractor to add them to the beer!

Judging by your oaks you have probably crossed paths with the EvOak rep that happens to be a very good mate of mine, he also lives close to DrSmurto but isn't a viticulturalist and doesn't drive a range rover, so maybe you don't acknowledge him.

:lol:

 

[manticle]

I think I'll go fermenter, & pre soak in the smoothest whisk(e)y I have. I'm gonna be drinking one oaky whisk(e)y , I have a hip flask so as not to flavour the whole bottle. Think I'll have just as much fun with the spirit as I will with the beer.

When I did mine I took the chips out and added them to the fermenter and drank the whisky. The single malt (can't remember which one I used - maybe glen moray?) was much darker and very oaky - along the lines of macallan but stronger flavoured. It was delicious and worth an experiment in future.

The JD tasted like oaked JD but I wasn't expecting much.

 

[WSC]

Kirem, I currently have the following small staves:
evOAK Latitude 44 Bordeaux
evOAK Latitude 45 Rhone
evOAK American Cuvee No1
All medium toast. The chips I used were Heinrich French medium roast as well.
What are your thoughts for a RIS?

Where do you get the different oaks from? I have only ever seen American and French in LHBS.

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

Does anyone see any issues in sterilising the woodchips, by adding to the last 10 mins of the boil, would it extract any unwanted resinous flavours?

I have available a choice of french oak chips or burbon american oak chips to use in a pale 5 to 7% scotch ale. I have some Scotch (Chivas) or Peated Irish (Connemara) that I could soak the french chips in to sanitise. But see it pointless to soak the burbon chips in non burbon whiskey, & no i dont want to buy a bottle of burbon.

I'm looking primarily for vanilla hints from the oak, so my tendency is toward the french oak.

Might seem like a silly suggestion but why not put the chips straight into primary? Its something that's done on a regular basis at crushing time during vintage>

BYB

 

[Frank]

Might seem like a silly suggestion but why not put the chips straight into primary? Its something that's done on a regular basis at crushing time during vintage>

BYB

Wine is more forgiving due to the higher alcohol level, you would probably be safe with a RIS, but maybe not lower alcohol beers. I am planning on dropping my stave straight into the keg.
All my oak was purchased straight from an Oak Supplier to the wine industry, the main reason for the buy was for our shed wine but asked for a bit more for the beer.

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

Wine is more forgiving due to the higher alcohol level, you would probably be safe with a RIS, but maybe not lower alcohol beers. I am planning on dropping my stave straight into the keg.
All my oak was purchased straight from an Oak Supplier to the wine industry, the main reason for the buy was for our shed wine but asked for a bit more for the beer.

Should of yelled out...... quietly

 

[fraser_john]

Kentucky Bourbon Ale

Instead of adding bourbon to boil I soaked american oak chips in bourbon for 20 minutes and added directly to fermenter after first day. Racked off primary as soon as fermentation was completed.

Turned out a wonderful beer. Definitely on my to brew again list, possibly for VicBrew in the specialty class. Need to pay more attention to my bottling sanitation though, really screwed up in the British Ales Comp. Hate bottling, but it's early and I am already digressing

Possible changes I would make would be to blast the chips with a propane torch to toast them, then toss in a bag to remove burnt bits. Possibly reducing the amount by 10%.

 

[WSC]

Wine is more forgiving due to the higher alcohol level, you would probably be safe with a RIS, but maybe not lower alcohol beers. I am planning on dropping my stave straight into the keg.
All my oak was purchased straight from an Oak Supplier to the wine industry, the main reason for the buy was for our shed wine but asked for a bit more for the beer.

Do these 'oak suppliers' supply direct to the public?

 

[Frank]

Do these 'oak suppliers' supply direct to the public?

I work in the wine Industry, but the purchase was for personal use for approx 1000L of wine. A quick net search should find a rep in your local area, a quick phone call and you should find out.

 

[Frank]

firstly viticulturalists and oak don't really mix! Once again I prove my point, that viticulturalists really want to be winemakers. You are aware that oak staves don't need pruning and you will have to get out of the tractor to add them to the beer!

funnily enough I use evoak mocha chips, I am a big fan of the Heinrich French as well. Judging by your oaks you have probably crossed paths with the EvOak rep that happens to be a very good mate of mine, he also lives close to DrSmurto but isn't a viticulturalist and doesn't drive a range rover, so maybe you don't acknowledge him.

The Bordeaux and Rhone I have only tasted in samples at a seminar and unfortunately I can't remember which one I liked (if any).

I have also tried EvOak high toast and this is a really good oak, if you see the rep ask him for some or let me know and I will get some for you.

I think the toastier oak that display mocha type characters are good for RIS, they worked for me.

Well I think I will just go with one of the French and one American in 2 kegs and do a taste test and see if I can pick the difference (with my uneducated vineyard palate).

So did you actually see any grapes this vintage or did they just arrive in trucks and you got the cellar hands to run a sample up to the lab for you once they were fermented?
By the way, how did your attempt at planting a vineyard this year go? not as easy as it sounded..

 

[Yob]

2 questions,

1. how much oak chips? is it like a dry hopping thing where more weight = less time?

2. do they need to be submerged or floating is OK?

 

[manticle]

Floating is OK in my experience (although I've not tried submersion).

How much is totally dependent on oak type, toast level, desired result etc. Look at Kirem's post (#22) above. Less is more in my experience though unless you like licking barrels. With subtle oaking you can get elements of chocolate, vanilla etc. Too much and it's just tannin and twig city.

 

[Yob]

great, missed that post somehow, more than enough to get me started.

Ta Manticle.

:beerdrink:

 

[AndrewQLD]

I brew an Oaked Strong Belgian Golden Ale @ 9% that went well at the QABC, 60g toasted oak chips for 30 days, tasted this each week while on the chips until I liked the flavour.
Different beer styles will yield different results as will the amount of attenuation and the ABV.

 

[beersom]

I brew an Oaked Strong Belgian Golden Ale @ 9% that went well at the QABC,

I still think about that beer.