1st ever all grain brew and it's in a bag

[thegreyman]

Would appreciate any thoughts about the mix of ingredients and timings etc and hopefully I'm in the right topic area.

3 kg malted barley grains - base - Traditional Ale
400 grams Crystal grains
24 grams Hallertau hops
S04 yeast


20 litres water @ 77C
both grains added and temp held @ 66-68C for 60 mins
grains removed
rolling boil for 60 mins
8 grams hallertau added @ start of rolling boil
8 grams hallertau and whirlfloc tablet added with 10 mins to go
8 grams hallertau added @ 60 mins
removed from heat and placed in cold icy water until temp drops to 18-22C @ which point I'll pour into the fermenter and pitch the yeast
hoping to end up with 16 litres being a 20% loss due to boiling etc

Thanks in advance

 

[Nizmoose]

Would appreciate any thoughts about the mix of ingredients and timings etc and hopefully I'm in the right topic area.

3 kg malted barley grains - base - Traditional Ale
400 grams Crystal grains - I'd maybe drop this down to perhaps 250gish? With a full 400 the beer will probably be a bit on the sweet side.
24 grams Hallertau hops
S04 yeast


20 litres water @ 77C
both grains added and temp held @ 66-68C for 60 mins
grains removed
rolling boil for 60 mins
8 grams hallertau added @ start of rolling boil
8 grams hallertau and whirlfloc tablet added with 10 mins to go
8 grams hallertau added @ 60 mins This is actually your 0 minute addition, hops @60mins means at the start of a 60 minute boil, hops @ 10min means with 10 minutes left, hops at 0mins means at the end
removed from heat and placed in cold icy water until temp drops to 18-22C @ which point I'll pour into the fermenter and pitch the yeast
hoping to end up with 16 litres being a 20% loss due to boiling etc

Thanks in advance

Ive made some suggestions in red but other than that I cant see many major issues, out of curiousity have you plugged this recipe into any software to see where youll end up for gravity and IBUs? really helps in the early stages of recipe formulation to be able to aim for a ballpark target You may find that your hop additions are a little light on if it was to be plugged into software but its totally up to your tastebuds

 

[Nizmoose]

Just quickly plugging in your recipe shows that you'll want to up the IBUs and probably tone down the crystal, heres a before and after:

Before:


After lowering the crystal and upping the 60 minute addition:


hope this helps

 

[earle]

Have another look at your strike temp - I think 77C might be a bit high for a mash of 66-68. I use beersmith to work this out for my brews.

You may also need to have another look at you estimated loss - you need to factor in liquid lost in your grain, evaporation when boiling and break material.

 

[wereprawn]

As per Nizmoose. You will need also to double the amount of hops or it will be too sweet. Prob cut down the xtal down to 100g, depending on what type of xtal you have.

 

[welly2]

Just quickly plugging in your recipe shows that you'll want to up the IBUs and probably tone down the crystal, heres a before and after:

Before:

Capture1.PNG

After lowering the crystal and upping the 60 minute addition:

Capture2.PNG

hope this helps

What software/website did you use for this? It's pretty.

 

[thegreyman]

Thanks to everyone - your advice is greatly appreciated.

Will drop the Crystal down to 250 grams
Increase the hops to 30 grams at 60 minutes followed by the 8grams at 10 mins to go and 8grams at 0 mins
Change the starting water down to say 74C
I've assumed a 20% loss due to boiling etc - Would this be about right?

Again this is greatly appreciated - I'll have to try and work out how to let you all know how this "1st ever" turns out

All the best

 

[verysupple]

What software/website did you use for this? It's pretty.

It looks like Brewtoad (website / recipe database type thing). Happy to be corrected if wrong.

 

[Nizmoose]

It looks like Brewtoad (website / recipe database type thing). Happy to be corrected if wrong.

Yep Brewtoad, really love the interface, easy to use and free.

 

[thegreyman]

I'm replying to this email because I started the thread and hopefully one of the guys who replied to my thread can help me out with this query.
I brewed my beer yesterday(very exciting) but may have messed up the yeast which was Safale SO4. I used half the packet in some hot water @41C and then poured it into the fermenter. I realised a few moments later that the packet said sprinkle it in at around18-22C. Not sure if the 1st half was ruined by the 41C so I then decided to sprinkle in the rest. Question is have I mucked it up? The brew is bubbling away now so maybe all is not lost? Oh yes the OG was1042. Started with 20 litres and ended up with 14.
As before thanks in advance.

thegreyman

 

[verysupple]

Well, the fact that it's bubbling is good!

I think you're a little confused about the different ways you can use dry yeast. You can rehydrate it in warm water first and then pitch it into the beer (like you did with the first half of the pack) or you can just sprinkle it on to the beer (like you did with the second half). Whether rehydrating it first is necessary is the subject of a loooooong standing debate amongst homebrewers so I'm not going to get into that.

If you choose to rehydrate it you should follow the manufacturers instructions (not always on the pack but typically easy to find on their website). Off the top of my head I think the correct temperature for ale yeasts is around the 30 C mark. You did it at 40 C which might be a touch high but is unlikely to have killed it. The 18 - 22 C is for if you sprinkle it straight into the beer.

So the short story is that you haven't ruined your beer.

Happy brewing.

 

[thegreyman]

That's great news verysupple - Thanks for your prompt reply - it's greatly appreciated.

 

[butisitart]

as an aside to all this, 3.1 kg grain will give you about a 3%alc beer on 22L. your ratios sound good for about a 5%ish beer. which is just fine. however, with the workload of actually making a beer, i migut next time consider a 4 to 4.5kg grain bill and 22-23L post boil for the same amount of hard work which would give you considerably more pleasure . that was the curious bit that struck me.

don't know what equipment you have, so i'll make an assumption here. the cheat is that if your pots only crank a boiled wort up to 14L brew, then calulate the grain at 23L, boil the wort at pot capacity. that will make a more concenntrated wort. so top the fermenter up with cold water. that also helps the cold break (faster temperature reduction). it works just fine.

 

[jimmy_jangles]

that high temp may have have added some undersirable flavours to your brew, i never rehydrate my yeast when using the dried packs and i have had no dramas at all, i do however always wait until the wort gets down to the ideal temp for pitching. 40C is never a good temp for an ale yeast, it would have started multiplying like mad, but the flavours it gives off at that temp would not be nice in my opinion ( i'm balls deep in a few beers at the moment watching the cricket, so please take my opinion with a grain of salt )

anyway, you still will get beer as a result, which is the aim, maybe try replicating what you have done, but changing things like how you pitch the yeast, how much water you use and grain that you use, one thing at a time to see which adjustments change your beer for the better

cheers

 

[thegreyman]

butisitart - don't know what equipment you have, so i'll make an assumption here. the cheat is that if your pots only crank a boiled wort up to 14L brew, then calulate the grain at 23L, boil the wort at pot capacity. that will make a more concenntrated wort. so top the fermenter up with cold water. that also helps the cold break (faster temperature reduction). it works just fine.

Yes you're right butisitart I only have a 19 litre and a 5 litre stockpot and oh if I'd only realised I could top up the fermenter to 23 litres with cold water I'd have masses more beer. So much to learn......... I'll not be trying to rehydrate the yeast going forward - all the beer can kits I've used in the past have worked using the sprinkling method so that's the way I'll go from now on.

Thanks for your help.

 

[butisitart]

glad to be of help - just remember enough grain and hops in the mash for 23L finished product. you don't want 23L of watered down mega swill.

 

[verysupple]

that high temp may have have added some undersirable flavours to your brew, i never rehydrate my yeast when using the dried packs and i have had no dramas at all, i do however always wait until the wort gets down to the ideal temp for pitching. 40C is never a good temp for an ale yeast, it would have started multiplying like mad, but the flavours it gives off at that temp would not be nice in my opinion ( i'm balls deep in a few beers at the moment watching the cricket, so please take my opinion with a grain of salt )

anyway, you still will get beer as a result, which is the aim, maybe try replicating what you have done, but changing things like how you pitch the yeast, how much water you use and grain that you use, one thing at a time to see which adjustments change your beer for the better

cheers

He rehydrated at ~40 C, not pitched it into wort at that temp. It's a completely different kettle of fish because there isn't the necessary nutrients in water for the yeast to multiply any significant amount.

 

[thegreyman]

just remember enough grain and hops in the mash for 23L finished product. Will do butisitart and if I may impose a little bit longer and ask could the cold water be sitting in the fermenter waiting for the wort( to cool?) before pouring it in? does the wort have to be cooled before pouring it in? or can the wort be poured in straight after its stopped its rolling boil and then the water added afterwards? sorry so many questions.

 

[butisitart]

there's as many variations to cooling wort as there are brewers. the trick is to get the wort to low 20s if you're doing ale yeast, and way lower than i'm capable of in this part of the world without refigerated fermenting, for lager. and to do it as fast as you can, however you can.
when i were biabing out of similar, a 20L and a10L pot, i always made my wort concentrated, so i could add near to iced water to get the temp down. (about 10L iced water), and this would still struggle to get under 30C. in summer, that's a slight problem cos it's not going to cool down very quickly from there, but ale yeast will still go for it. anyway - there's lots of good threads here on cooling systems with icebaths, tubes through salt, piped and tubed chillers etc etc etc ad nauseum.
so mechanically, i'd go wort in first and pretty much straight away, then upend icy water into that, (straight away, cos we're trying to get the temp down fast) from some height to charge the wort up with lots of bubbling oxygen. (it's the only time you want to suck oxygen into a wort - yeast needs oxygen in the mix.). then top up any further needed to 23L. i were using the plasbrew bottles that i got with my original kit. though you could use one of those 10L block water containers from a supermarket. (not in my wife's fridge, we don't). but that's a pretty simple, lazy and not always the most confidence building way, but you probably can't get much cheaper either. you can add most dry ale yeasts at under 30c, but the lower the pitching temp, the better the end product. the balance is that you can't sit around for too long hoping the ferment temp is going to drop further, cos uninvited guests that get hold of the brew before the yeast kicks in can turn the whole thing into a real stinker.
i found winter brewing a lot easier than summer brewing cos of the ambient air and tapwater temps. but then, i had no great equipment.

i couldn't work out what it was that adding wort to the water was making me feel uneasy. it's cos you want to top up the wort with water to 23L. you don't want to top water up with wort unless you do a lot of calculations first.

this whole process will eventually frustrate you (especially in summer) because you don't have great control over a really important process, so then you'll either give up brewing (no no.... wrong answer) or upgrade your gear (ting!!). that's a kid in a lolly shop process.

 

[thegreyman]

A quick update
Beer brewed and now bottled(ended up with 34 stubbies)
OG1042 FG1008
Looking forward to trying in a couple of weeks time @ which time I'll give a final update.
Thanks again everyone - it was an interesting jourmey
All the best