Water Ph & Orp Analyser / Controller

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Polar Beer

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I've had this flash looking device sitting round for a couple of years. Came with the pile of crap left in my garage when I moved in.

ABB TB84 pH & ORP Analyzer
Blurb and Specs

I have no electronics or chemistry background at all, but it seems to be a controller of some sort. It can do things (turn on relays, send pulses :huh: ) when it's probes detect preset values. Seems these triggers can be set on either temp, ph, orp (?) or ions (??)

Currently upgrading the brew rig and would be interested in knowing if I could incorporate this into a HERMS system. Anyone know anything about these kind of devices?
 
I have no electronics or chemistry background at all, but it seems to be a controller of some sort. It can do things (turn on relays, send pulses :huh: ) when it's probes detect preset values. Seems these triggers can be set on either temp, ph, orp (?) or ions (??)

Short of it: You have a device to control a water ionization device.

The feature most interesting is:
Three fully programmable relay outputs. But driven by pH or ORP only?

Talk about ionized water and health benefits and you might get a lot of hippie sounding books coming your way :)

From the other side of it:

ORP is a "potential" energy that is stored and ready to be put to work. It's not necessarily working, but we know that the energy is there and we can measure it. Another way to look at this potential might be to look at pressure. If you blow up a balloon, and there is air pressure inside. As long as the balloon is closed, the pressure remains and can be measured. When released, this potential energy becomes kinetic energy.

In electrical terms, potential energy can be measured. When we use the term "potential" in describing ORP, we are actually talking about electrical potential as expressed in millivolts. This potential is measured in water with an ORP meter. What you measure is the very slight voltage in water. We are actually measuring the presence of oxidizing or reducing agents by their specific electrical charge, thus Oxidation Reduction "Potential". High pH water has more "reducing" agents (-ORP) and low pH water has more oxidizing agents (+ORP).

Oxidation is what turns an apple brown after it is cut or causes metal to rust. Rust weakens metal and signifies the deterioration of the apple. The process of oxidation steals electrons from the surface being oxidized. When we measure a somethings oxidizing potential, it is expressed in +ORP and measures the concentration of OH+ ions or oxidizing agents.

A reducing agent is simply something that inhibits or slows the process of oxidation. The reducing agent does this by donating an electron. When we measure a somethings oxidation reduction potential, it is expressed in terms of ORP and measures the concentration of OH- ions or reducing agents. In its most basic form a reducing agent is an antioxidant ~ reducing oxidation.

The ORP of most tap water is between +200 to +600mv and so is an oxidizing agent. High pH ionized water demonstrates a ORP and so is a reducing agent or antioxidant. Most bottled waters are very acidic (low pH) and also have higher ORPs (over +400mv).

pH stands for "potential hydrogen" and is a measurement that provides an indication of the level of hydrogen in a substance. It is measured by the pH scale. Proper body pH is an important factor in good health. If any substance changes from pH 7 to pH 8, it has become ten times more alkaline. Conversely, if it has changes from neutral pH 7 to pH 6, it is 10 times more acidic. As an example, a popular Cola, at pH 2.5 is almost 50,000 times more acidic than neutral water, and needs 32 glasses of neutral (pH 7) water to counteract the consumption of one glass of Cola. (Active ingredient: Phosphoric Acid) You can now see that a change from the normal level 7.365 to pH 7 would mean that your blood would suddenly be around 4 times as acid as it should be. You would die from poisoning by your own blood. This is why every body system is used to support the correct blood pH.

You can also understand from this that our blood pH can be affected at any time of the day by a myriad of events; food, drink, stress, pollution, exercise, or beneficially, by meditation, by drinking alkaline water, by deep breathing, even by being happy.

The other way an ionizer alters the water is in ORP. This stands for Oxidation Reduction Potential (also referred to as "Redox" - it's the same thing). Most leading water researchers from Asia agree that in ionized water the elevated pH is good, but that ORP is more important. Alteration to the OPR is what causes the microclustering, antioxidant and oxygenating effects.

pH and ORP alteration is a highly variable and depends primarily on three factors:

1. The source water and its natural mineral content water varies widely in this respect
2. The voltage applied to the water during electrolysis
3. The flow rate through the ionizers water cell

These variables have a dramatic effect on pH and ORP.

An ionizer works primarily on the mineral content in the water. It is the dissolved mineral content (referred to as TDS) which creates the pathway for the ionization (or more correctly electrolysis) to occur. Water without mineral content or TDS, like reverse osmosis or distilled water, will not conduct the current and therefore can not be ionized. This first variable is the most crucial to performance. Tap waters vary widely in the dissolved mineral content. The higher the mineral content (harder water), the higher the levels of pH and ORP alteration an ionizer can achieve; the lower the mineral content (softer water), the lower levels the of pH and ORP alteration. The importance of this variable can not be emphasized enough.

The heart of an ionizer is the water cell which contains the electrodes. The electrodes are what deliver the current and creates the ionization. We control the voltage conducted through the electrodes and then to the water by selecting the different "Alkaline" settings on an ionizer. The higher the Alkaline setting (or voltage), the more alteration you will achieve in pH and ORP. Effective conductivity is the primary determinant not electrode size - of effective delivery of the current or voltage into the water needed to create electrolysis. Do not be fooled by the claim some manufacturers make that larger electrodes will necessarily deliver better performance. Generally the larger electrodes have poorer conductivity so they have to be larger.

The flow rate through the machine determines how long the water is actually in contact with the electrodes receiving the voltage and the effects of electrolysis. If your flow is fast (say you could fill a quart or liter in 15 seconds) then the water is not processing very long and not receiving much alteration. Conversely, with a slow the flow rate (say the same quart or liter took 60 seconds) the water is in the chamber in contact with the electrodes longer and will receive more alteration. You can always achieve higher pH and ORP readings with reduced flow rates. So controlling the flow is an important variable in performance.

On most ionizers you can only adjust the flow rate by using your faucet or tap. If your faucet is all the way "on", the water will process very fast through the machine. If your faucet is just barely "on", this reduces the flow and the water will process for much longer. With a fast flow rate you may only achieve slight alteration in pH and ORP, slow it down and you will get higher pH and better ORP. Simply put, speed it up, you get a less alteration; slow it down and you'll get more.

To illustrate this whole principle lets look at two very different tap waters and their effect on performance. Remember the crucial variable is the dissolved mineral content or TDS (total dissolved solids) which is measured in parts per million. This creates the pathway for the ionization to occur. In Carlsbad, California the tap water tests at 385 - 501ppm of total dissolved solids. The tap water in Seattle, Washington tests at approximately 40 47ppm. You could test water from an ionizer in Carlsbad at a given setting and flow rate and you would get a certain result. You could test the exact same ionizer in Seattle without altering the setting or flow rate and you would get dramatically different results. Is it the ionizer? No. It is the water as the main variable in performance. There is much less pathway in Seattles water. To further illustrate variability, you could alter the voltage or flow rates through the ionizer in either Carlsbad or Seattle and you would get different results again.

Research states that the ideal level for drinking alkaline water is between pH8.5 pH9.5 with an ORP of -250mv. It is unimportant if an ionizer creates big -ORP numbers at really high levels of pH. For most people, water over a pH10 begins to acquire an unpleasant taste due to the heavy concentration of minerals. What is important is drinking water at the mildly alkaline levels of pH8.5 pH9.5 with good -ORP. Of course the Athena will create the big ORP numbers at the higher pH ranges, but it is designed to give you the best ORP at the lower levels of pH. These are the levels that you will actually enjoy drinking. That is where the bang for your buck is. There is no need for ionized water to taste bad and be the cod liver oil of this generation!

Comparing ORP

Lastly, comparing ORP is a tricky business. Stating absolute values is impossible. Anyone who really knows and understands ionizers/ORP would agree. Anyone who states absolutes in performance proves their ignorance on the science behind it. Further, pH and ORP are not tied to one another. In other words you can measure ORP in two pH9 waters and get two very different readings. Another factor to consider when comparing ORP is the level of pH you will drink.

Water with a pH over about pH10 does not taste good to the vast majority of people. Japanese research states that the ideal range for drinking alkaline water is between pH8.5 and pH9.5. Given this, testing ORP at those levels is where the real bang for the buck is; ORP at a pH level one would actually drink. Therefore, the only salient way to compare ORP in ionizers is side-by-side, with the same source water and each machine set to achieve the same drinkable level of pH. If you drink pH9 then the ORP you get at pH9 is the effective ORP in the ionizer. Not some absolute or even extraordinarily high ORP.

So understanding performance is like understanding a dance between the three variables. Understanding this dance is crucial to making an informed decision when purchasing an ionizer, and also in getting the most out of your ionizers performance.
 
Short of it: You have a device to control a water ionization device.

From the other side of it:

ORP is a "potential" energy that is stored and ready to be put to work....etc etc

Wow BP. Thanks for that. Very interesting. At least I know what this thing is supposed to be used for now.

But can I use it to brew beer? Have you any idea If I can use this to activate/deactivate heating elements, solenoids etc? Using the probe to measure temps.

Or - would I be better flogging this off on ebay? There's on in the US for $500. I could do good things to my brewery with that.
One for sale on ebay in US
 
The feature most interesting is:
Three fully programmable relay outputs. But driven by pH or ORP only?

Talk about ionized water and health benefits and you might get a lot of hippie sounding books coming your way :)

Aha! Your edit additions look are more what Im after. I read the manual and Im sure somewhere it said it could do things with the relays based on temp measurements.

I like hippie books.
 
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