Siphon Problems

[Brizbrew]

Today I made some progress with my converted kegs, I made a water tight seal on my pipe nipple and did a test boil with my Nasa burner, it took just under 10 minutes to get 30l to a strong boil!!! All is good

My problem lies with what to do with the water once it is boiled. I used some copper pipe and a compression joint to make a siphon which I thought woud drain my water but it did not, it siphoned down to level with the hole I drilled in the keg but no further, is this normal or am I being thick..or both? :unsure:
If this is normal then it is easily overcome by boiling more water in the HLT than is needed and leaving behind what I don't use but in the Kettle it is different, I would not want to leave 4 or 5 litres behind (Obviously) and need a solution to this problem without tilting the keg to drain the last few litres?

Here is a pic of what I made.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/dow...3/kegsiphon.jpg

 

[Borret]

Today I made some progress with my converted kegs, I made a water tight seal on my pipe nipple and did a test boil with my Nasa burner, it took just under 10 minutes to get 30l to a strong boil!!! All is good

My problem lies with what to do with the water once it is boiled. I used some copper pipe and a compression joint to make a siphon which I thought woud drain my water but it did not, it siphoned down to level with the hole I drilled in the keg but no further, is this normal or am I being thick..or both? :unsure:
If this is normal then it is easily overcome by boiling more water in the HLT than is needed and leaving behind what I don't use but in the Kettle it is different, I would not want to leave 4 or 5 litres behind (Obviously) and need a solution to this problem without tilting the keg to drain the last few litres?

Here is a pic of what I made.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/dow...3/kegsiphon.jpg

[post="68270"][/post]​

Briz.

I believe you are competing with common physics. Yes it will work but just like a river, water won't flow up hill. So once you put a a hose on the outside which has an exit point lower than the bottom of your keg then the whole lot will siphon out. At the moment you have a drain, not a siphon.

Regards
Borret

 

[Darren]

Briz Brew,
If you have an air-tight seal and the vessel you are transfering to is lower you should be able to "suck-it dry". Never had a problen draining my kettle that has "drainage" from the side.
cheers
Darren

 

[Guest Lurker]

[/quote]

Briz.

I believe you are competing with common physics. Yes it will work but just like a river, water won't flow up hill. So once you put a a hose on the outside which has an exit point lower than the bottom of your keg then the whole lot will siphon out. At the moment you have a drain, not a siphon.

Regards
Borret

[post="68272"][/post]​

[/quote]

Obvious when someone points it out isnt it. I stood there for a few minutes when I built mine getting pissed off when it wouldnt drain before it clicked. For the kettle, where you may not have a hose, just dropping to a fermenter, you will need a curved copper pipe on the outside as well to get below the inlet.

 

[Darren]

For the kettle, where you may not have a hose, just dropping to a fermenter, you will need a curved copper pipe on the outside as well to get below the inlet.

[post="68274"][/post]​

[/quote]


A piece of flexible hose connected to the outlet will work fine!!

cheers Darren

 

[BeerIsGood]

... it took just under 10 minutes to get 30l to a strong boil!!! ...

By my rough calculations, taking 30L of water from 25C to 105C in 10 minutes takes about 17kW of heating power. Burn, baby burn B)

 

[Brizbrew]

Ah! The penny drops!

I will give it a bash tomorrow and see how it goes...fun this brewing lark innit. :super:

 

[warrenlw63]

Brizbrew,

Also another point worth noting. Don't do what I did and make the pickup tube's curvature higher than the outlet. I mistakingly did this and also scratched my head wondering why the siphon stopped at the outlet depth.

Also make sure you torque the compression fittings to "FT" tension (no explanation required here). Slightest leak stops the siphon.

Warren -

 

[Brizbrew]

Cheers for that Warren, I have tightened them as much as I can. The outside nut is straight forward but tightening the inside one is a bit difficult because of the curvature of the keg.
The compression fitting is easier to tighten though because of the small distance between the inner keg wall and the nut therefore giving some space to get your hand/arm in there and turn the spanner.

Where do you get those nice screw in barbed fittings that you use for your taps? I have had a cursory look around but have not seen them anywhere, I am now at the stage where I am ready to fit them so it is becoming priority.

Cheers.

 

[warrenlw63]

Brizbrew,

Bunnings have them. Either that or any plumbing or engineering/hydraulic type suppliers. Not hard to find at all.

Tip. For your kettle get the biggest you can find. Otherwise your kettle takes forever to drain to the fermenter.

Warren -

 

[sosman]

... it took just under 10 minutes to get 30l to a strong boil!!! ...

By my rough calculations, taking 30L of water from 25C to 105C in 10 minutes takes about 17kW of heating power. Burn, baby burn B)

[post="68279"][/post]​

Very rough indeed, because to get water to 105C, at least for most punters above sea level, you need to turn it into steam and that takes a whole lot more energy.

 

[Borret]

... it took just under 10 minutes to get 30l to a strong boil!!! ...

By my rough calculations, taking 30L of water from 25C to 105C in 10 minutes takes about 17kW of heating power. Burn, baby burn B)

[post="68279"][/post]​

Very rough indeed, because to get water to 105C, at least for most punters above sea level, you need to turn it into steam and that takes a whole lot more energy.

[post="68358"][/post]​

I was waiting to see who'd pick that up h34r: and who better than you SOS.

Borret :blink:

 

[Brizbrew]

Thanks for the tip Warren, I will have a better look down at Bunnings over the next few days.

I tried the siphon today using a length of hose down below the level of the kettle and it worked like a dream I will be joining the AG ranks very soon.

 

[BeerIsGood]

Very rough indeed, because to get water to 105C, at least for most punters above sea level, you need to turn it into steam and that takes a whole lot more energy.

My apologies for the error

At the risk of hijacking this thread:

You are quite right:

"When a liquid at boiling-point is heated further at constant pressure the additional heat supplied changes the phase of the substance from liquid to vapour; during this change of phase the pressure and temperature remain constant." (Applied Thermodynamics for Engineering Technologists, 5th ed., Eastop & McConkey.).

I ignored this fact when making my calculation, in order to allow for some additional energy input to compensate for the 'rapid boil'. This was the wrong thing to do, as rapid boil is simply a rapid phase change, at constant pressure and temperature (as described above). I haven't done thermodynamics equations since uni... excuses, excuses....

Revised calc:

The internal energy change of 30L water from 25C to a boiling point of water at 100C at an atmospheric pressure of 101.32 kPa is 9,426 kJ. The heating requirement to provide this energy (assuming 100% efficiency, which would of course not be the case) in ten minutes is 15.7 kW.

I'll rethink any calcs in future before posting them :angry:

If you drink then calculate you're a bloody idiot.

(I don't want this thread to be hijacked. If anyone wants to take me up on this further, please PM me).