Question for people with HERMS setups

[Burt de Ernie]

Hi AHB`ers,

Can anyone out there who brews HERMS style brewery let me know generally what temperature the water in the HLT is maintained at?

 

[Beerisyummy]

Too many variables mate.

When heating mine will come to the boil if I rush it.
While maintaining temps it settles down to within 5 degrees from memory.
It's all going to come down to how much water/metal your hlt holds, how fast you're ramping up and how much heat your losing from the mash recirculation. Mine only holds a small volume of water so it will boil quickly.

I'm interested to read what results others are getting.

 

[Yob]

My HEX is a separate vessel so my HLT can always be either at strike or sparge temps, never actually measured HEX temps..

 

[gava]

Hi AHB`ers,

Can anyone out there who brews HERMS style brewery let me know generally what temperature the water in the HLT is maintained at?

I've recently done testing of my new rig on this, I use a 75lt HLT with a Stainless Steel Coil mounted midway up the HLT.
My HLT sits around 4-5c above the MLT temperature.. Once it's at the set temperature it seems to settle down and sit fine. I'm using PID Controller which have been tuned to my rig for this.
If your using a simple on/off device you'll notice alot of swing with over/undershooting (depends alot on your HLT volume) also if you are using a PID you must tune it to your conditions.
My hoses are pretty long so It could be loosing some heat there as-well as other places, the way I see it, as long as its consistent i don't really care how hot my HLT gets just as long as my mashing is at correct temp.

-Gav

 

[Beerisyummy]

Good point on using the PID Gava. I forgot to mention that I'm using one tuned for my system.
The ATC gave terrible results because of unacceptable temperature overshoot.

Yob,
When do you use the water from your HLT at different temps to your HEX? Are you doing a mash out followed by a sparge (in general)?
My system's a little different to most so I'm still trying to get my head around the more conventional designs.

 

[gava]

Good point on using the PID Gava. I forgot to mention that I'm using one tuned for my system.
The ATC gave terrible results because of unacceptable temperature overshoot.

Yob,
When do you use the water from your HLT at different temps to your HEX? Are you doing a mash out followed by a sparge (in general)?
My system's a little different to most so I'm still trying to get my head around the more conventional designs.

My Last system had a dedicated HEX my process on brew day was

- Preheat my HEX to around mashing temp (65c)
- Get hlt to 75c~ this accounted for the grain temp absorption which would take it down to mashing temp,. roughly 65c
- Dump grain into MLT underlet from HLT
- Starting MASH using the HEX which is controlled by PID (was brewtroller setup)
- refill HLT and preheat for batch sparge
- ramp HEX for mash out
- drain to kettle
- batch sparge from HLT
- recirculate through the HEX for 5 to 10mins
- Drain to kettle
- boil etc...

My HEX had two probes in it, One was in the water to preheat the pot, once it started mashing it changed over to the second probe which was on the wort out point which kept the wort at mashing temp.
plenty of ways to skin the cat, just find the way thats easiest for you to get repeating results.

-Gav

 

[Yob]

well.... it means that I can be mashing at 63 and my HLT, which needs refilling after mash in, can be ramping up to sparge temps, the 2 units run at different temps and only end up in the same region at Mash Out, also, with a smaller volume of water in my HEX, it will use less energy that having a coil in my HLT having a much larger volume.

 

[Beerisyummy]

Thanks guys.
Several ways to skin a cat is about right. Just as long as the bastard ends up flayed! (sorry cat lovers)

PS. I'm pretty sure you're still using roughly the same amount of energy either way Yob. That's if your heating the same volume of water by the end of the process and the system losses aren't too big. Edit: Just re read your post mate. definitely allows for a smaller element in your HEX unit.

 

[idzy]

I'm using gavas old system and use the same process he described above, except I have been mashing in at 58c for a 55c rest.

I agree with Yob that the great thing is having sparge volumes preheating as you are going through your multi-step mash is a great feature of separate vessels.

 

[southcoastbrewer]

I am running a basic HERMS set up, i just finished it and put a batch through it last night. Im using a Brewbit... think i may be one of the only Aussies with one thus far, to control how mine works... basically i have the Brewbit plugged into 1 march pump and the other into the HLT element..

i heat the HLT with gas to the strike temp pump across and mash in set the HLT side to 3 degrees higher than the mash temp of say 65... so set it at 68.. to make up for the fact that its running through 8 meters of copper/ its an electric element and leave it go... top up if needed... i didnt this time as i filled the keggle well above the amount of water i needed


as the mash temp drops the pump kicks in to recirc the wort... it came on around 6 to 7 times during the mash and would stay on for roughly 3 to 4 mins at a time... the keggle holds heat really well.. Wort came out crystal clear too... it really dosnt take much once its recirculating to clear it up or heat it up.

As the HLT drops... the probe kicks in and heats it up

For mash out i used gas/electric to bring the temp up quickly in the HLT and set the mash to do the same... the pump whirs away until the entire mash is sitting at that temp


the brewbit temp probes sit inside thermowells... however i did a test by dropping them directly into the liquid coming out of the HLT and it was spot on 65 during the 60 min mash

Southcoast

 

[HardEight]

My HLT (a 50L keggle) has 9m of copper tube as a permanent HEX for the HERMS system..
I keep the temps in the MLT about 2-5deg above what i'm targeting on the HERMS PID..
If i'm about to ramp up, i'll increase the HLT temp to 2-5 deg above target temp, about 5 minutes before i start the ramp.

 

[Burt de Ernie]

I asked the question because my setup allows either a 75 or 85 degree option. I am using a Rinnai instantaneous heater on a flow and return loop then pumping the mash in through the loop in a counter flow direction.

Based on what has been said here I am thinking that 85 degree flow and return would be ample!

Any feed back is welcomed. Sorry...I cant work out how to rotate the sketch