Possible Brewing Problems.

[Mattorade]

Okay this is my first brew so yeah, I'm a newbie, feel free to call me a n00b or w/e

I may or may not be having problems with my brewing, I just want to make sure I'm not.

Firstly, It's only been about 24 hours since I got the fermenter going with all the beer in it and stuff, so it's been fermenting for 24 hours. Already I can see a build up of crust on top of the beer just like in the coopers home brew video. Isn't that supposed to happen when it's nearly ready though?

The other thing I'm worried about is it seems to be at about 28-30 degrees on the thermometer on the fermenter... I have my window open and apparently it's 18 degrees outside according to AccuWeather.com.. Are there cold-plates I can buy for the base of the fermenter, and if so do you know where? Preferably in Perth.

Also if it goes slightly over 32 degrees will it go off or taste bad? Will there be any major differences? Or will it just taste slightly not as good? (Coopers recommends 21 to 27 degrees but also says 18 to 32 is acceptable)..

Thanks for your help..

 

[Whistlingjack]

Hi Mattorade, and welcome to the world of brewing.

Won't take long before you're hooked. Believe me, I know.

First thing, that "crust" on your fermenting beer is called krausen and its a good sign that the yeast is doing its work. Are you using an airlock? Not absolutely necessary, but you should be seeing some bubbling, assuming that the fermenter is airtight.

Second point. The temperature is a little high. This will not harm the yeast, but the flavour of the beer may be affected. Try to cool it. The easiest way is to stick the fermenter in a bath tub with some cold water or buy one of those 100 can coolers (do a search on this site). Aim for 20 degrees.

Overall, these kits are fairly "foolproof", meaning the beer you produce will be good no matter what you do (within the bounds of commonsense)

May your journey along the path to brewing enlightenment be soaked with tasty beer.

Cheers

WJ

 

[Mattorade]

First thing, that "crust" on your fermenting beer is called krausen and its a good sign that the yeast is doing its work. Are you using an airlock? Not absolutely necessary, but you should be seeing some bubbling, assuming that the fermenter is airtight.

Won't the beer get infected and go off if I remove the airlock? Dust and crap will get in there.

Also yes the airlock is bubbling, it won't stop bubbling, it woke me up last night a few times. It makes a wet "splonk" sound as the cO2 bubbles are released every few seconds.

Another thing, will tiny bits of rubber from the rubber grommet ruin the beer, or be poisonous? I think some may or may not have got in there when I yanked out the airlock when I realised there was an ant crawling around inside it, just after I had put it on. I think two sides of the airlock insert part are a bit sharp and scraped a few bits of the rubber off. I know because I saw tiny black bits on the outside of the lid when i went to put the airlock back in after removing the ant.

Second point. The temperature is a little high. This will not harm the yeast, but the flavour of the beer may be affected. Try to cool it. The easiest way is to stick the fermenter in a bath tub with some cold water or buy one of those 100 can coolers (do a search on this site). Aim for 20 degrees.

I can't really put it in the bath since my house mate always seems to be using it. I searched the forum for the 100 can cooler and most of the results were people looking for one. I also eBayed the 100 can cooler and it only came up with things that looked like eskies. I need something round not rectangular in shape =/.. Something that would fit the base of a Coopers Micro Brewery Kit.

Also this kit has a tap on it and it's a bit sharp and pointy so I'd need a sturdy can cooler.

Overall, these kits are fairly "foolproof", meaning the beer you produce will be good no matter what you do (within the bounds of commonsense)

What if the temperature goes below 18 or above 32 degrees?

 

[Whistlingjack]

Ok...

Won't the beer get infected and go off if I remove the airlock? Dust and crap will get in there.

Once the beer is fermenting, two things are produced that make it difficult for beer-spoiling microorganisms. Namely, alcohol and carbon dioxide. By the time the krausen appears there will be a layer of CO2 on the surface and the yeast, lacking oxygen will now be producing alcohol.

Any contamination will have been introduced before these two things started to happen. Still, the airlock is a good thing. Some guys just use gladwrap and I have seen a few microbreweries with open fermenters.

Another thing, will tiny bits of rubber from the rubber grommet ruin the beer, or be poisonous?

No, can't imagine this will be a problem.

On the cooling issue, I once used a large plastic tub filled with water and rotated frozen 3 litre milk containers to keep it cool. A fermentation fridge is the way to go, but thats getting into the serious side.

What if the temperature goes below 18 or above 32 degrees?

Most ale yeasts (usually the strain in kits) perform better at temps above 18 degrees. Below this, they may decide to have a sleep. Lager yeasts can ferment at lower temps but require special treatment.

Higher temperatures will cause the yeast to produce so-called "higher alcohols" which may, through their interaction with other compounds, produce esters which will impart some unwanted flavours. In some beers these flavours are desired, and they won't make your beer taste bad.

Hope this helps

WJ

 

[Mattorade]

Higher temperatures will cause the yeast to produce so-called "higher alcohols" which may, through their interaction with other compounds, produce esters which will impart some unwanted flavours. In some beers these flavours are desired, and they won't make your beer taste bad.

Cool, so the only thing that makes my beer go off is infection? Higher than 32 degrees will only change the taste, right?

How do I tell if the beer is off? I've never smelt or tasted off beer before so I wouldn't have a clue what it smelt or tasted like.

 

[Whistlingjack]

Well, not a lot of people have tasted "off" beer.

Your beer will most certainly taste good to you, but others may not agree. Some flavour compounds are not present in quantities that are detected by all people. That is, the thresholds are different.

Having said that, you will KNOW if your beer is infected. You won't be able to drink it for the taste. It will be sour or "goaty" or rancid in flavour. Pay attention to your sanitation and you needn't worry.

Beer making is all about yeast and sanitation. Oh, and its about the enjoyment of the production and the reward of a well made product.

WJ

 

[Whistlingjack]

And BTW, Matterade

Enter your location in your profile. You may get an invite to a brewday nearby.... :super:

WJ

 

[Mattorade]

And BTW, Matterade

Enter your location in your profile. You may get an invite to a brewday nearby.... :super:

WJ

I just did, thanks. I see you're from the same state as me, but you're in Berlin now? What's it like over there?

 

[Whistlingjack]

but you're in Berlin now? What's it like over there?

Well, where do I start?

I'm here to learn how to make beer, in the way Germans can.

A big, bustling cosmopolitan city, with which I have a love/hate relationship. It can be a great place to be, but it can be very frightening for a country boy like me.

This is how far the homebrewing obsession can take you. One day K&K, the next in Berlin...

WJ

 

[Adamt]

You can read all about WJ's exploits in Germany in this thread:

My Day at the VLB

Lucky bugger is over there "studying" brewing It's definitely an interesting read.

---

As far as your brew goes; don't expect a brilliant beer, but don't be disheartened! The optimum temperature for standard ale yeasts is around 18C-20C. As already said, below that the yeast may be slow to work/prone to infections, above that and esters and other "off"-flavours are produced, which are sought after in some beers.

I believe 26 and above is too high. You will inevitably yield some high-order alcohols (also known as fusel alcohols) at these temperatures, which can leave a sharp alcoholic taste, and can cause hangovers if drunk excessively. Theres a sticky thread floating around "FAQ for the new brewer" or similar that has many great suggestings for the new brewer such as yourself including sanitation, ingredients, yeast handling and temperature control.

Had a bit more to write but I'm running late!

Cheers
Adam

 

[animal_man]

mattorade i was the same as you mate...........
untill last yesterday when i bottled my first brew. Now im an expert The beer will just take care of itself, just get that temp right!
Relax, and have a beer mate.
Happy brewing.

 

[Keifer]

If your not happy with the beer you get, keep trying, it doesn't take long to get to a brew you really enjoy. I know i didn't make a half decent batch till about number 4-6. Best thing you can do is read up on this forum, tons and tons of info on how to do kits and then advanced kits.

For your first few brews i would suggest you concentrate on 2 things:

1) Cleanliness and sanitisation
2) Temperature (Ale vs Lager etc)

Not matter how you brew beer these are the (i think) the most important aspects. You can the have the most exquisite malt and best hops but make ***** beer without those 2.

Let us know how you get on with your first brew!

 

[Mattorade]

As far as your brew goes; don't expect a brilliant beer, but don't be disheartened! The optimum temperature for standard ale yeasts is around 18C-20C. As already said, below that the yeast may be slow to work/prone to infections, above that and esters and other "off"-flavours are produced, which are sought after in some beers.

You say 18-20 for Ale. What about Lager? I'm brewing Coopers Lager (Came with the kit).

I believe 26 and above is too high. You will inevitably yield some high-order alcohols (also known as fusel alcohols) at these temperatures, which can leave a sharp alcoholic taste, and can cause hangovers if drunk excessively. Theres a sticky thread floating around "FAQ for the new brewer" or similar that has many great suggestings for the new brewer such as yourself including sanitation, ingredients, yeast handling and temperature control.

Higher temp = stronger beer + bad hangover, gotcha

What I really need is a 100 can cooler, assuming it fits a Coopers Brewery Kit with the tap currently screwed on the side. Or some kind of plate to cool it underneath. I don't wanna be spending heaps on ice just to keep it cool...

 

[Mattorade]

The other thing I'm concerned about is the cO2 being released from the Airlock.. Like I have it in my room, because I don't really trust my current housemates. They'll be gone within a month or so though, so I'll be able to put the fermenter in other parts of the house, and even set up a few other fermenters if i feel like it. But my concern with the cO2 is.. I close my window when I go to sleep, now so far it hasn't been a problem.. But if it keeps releasing cO2 into the air isn't that bad for my health?

Not that alcohol itself isn't bad for my health.. lol

 

[Whistlingjack]

You say 18-20 for Ale. What about Lager? I'm brewing Coopers Lager (Came with the kit).

These kits have an ale yeast (top fermenting). Sure they call them a lager, but at a beginning level, most guys shouldn't have to worry about low temp fermenting, diacetyl rests, lagering, etc. Its quite involved and you should, at this stage, be developing your technique and move to more adventurous things later.

Your thirst for the knowledge will match your thirst for good beer.

The other thing I'm concerned about is the cO2 being released from the Airlock

Don't worry. The amount of CO2 is very small. Put your nose on to the top of the airlock and inhale deeply just as the bubble happens. Interesting to do, but not dangerous...

If you're a greenie, then you may worry about ozone depletion and global warming.

My suggestion?

Plant hops to offset your carbon production.

WJ

 

[Whistlingjack]

Higher temp = stronger beer + bad hangover, gotcha

Not exactly. The presence of higher alcohols (fusels) do not mean a higher alcohol content in your beer. They react with other compounds to produce undesirable flavours (esters). They can also give you a headache and some people are more sensitive to them than others.

WJ

 

[Mattorade]

Don't worry. The amount of CO2 is very small. Put your nose on to the top of the airlock and inhale deeply just as the bubble happens. Interesting to do, but not dangerous...

If you're a greenie, then you may worry about ozone depletion and global warming.

My suggestion?

Plant hops to offset your carbon production.

WJ

Yeah I've actually already done that, it smells kinda like wine or liquor, is it bad if it smells like liquor?

Also I recall you saying it shouldn't matter if the air-lock is in or not.. Are you sure? I know strong alcohol is a sterlising/cleaning agent but beer is so much weaker compared to methylated spirits...

Basically what I mean is, because the alcohol level in the beer is so weak, won't it be very easy for it to get infected or go off?

Also just so you know my room is mostly clean at the moment aside from a few pizza boxes on the floor and some empty beverage bottles.. But I have lots of dirty clothes in here (in the corner) and the carpet hasn't been cleaned in months.

Is there a less noisy (or no noise at all) way of keeping germs out without using the air-lock? I've thought of putting glad-wrap over the hole or something.. But won't the cO2 pressure just force that off?

 

[Whistlingjack]

Of course its better to have an air lock unless you can keep the surrounding environment clean. I mentioned before that the yeast will produce two things (alcohol and CO2) that make it difficult for beer spoiling microrganisms to take hold. True, the concentration of alcohol is not high, but its high enough.

Its a little trick that yeast has developed. Have a read of this article I found that will explain how yeast protects its environment. Very interesting.

The smell you're getting is OK. What you will also get is a "tingling" feeling in your nasal passages from the pure CO2 in the headspace of the fermenter.

WJ

PS Out of interest, you must be a shift-worker, right?

 

[Mattorade]

I mentioned before that the yeast will produce two things (alcohol and CO2) that make it difficult for beer spoiling microrganisms to take hold. True, the concentration of alcohol is not high, but its high enough.

Its a little trick that yeast has developed. Have a read of this article I found that will explain how yeast protects its environment. Very interesting.

The smell you're getting is OK. What you will also get is a "tingling" feeling in your nasal passages from the pure CO2 in the headspace of the fermenter.

WJ

PS Out of interest, you must be a shift-worker, right?

I'm going to take your word for it and take out this damn air-lock, the bubbling keeps me awake at night, and I want to get up early today to see the kickass "300" movie before work..

Yeah, I'm a shift-worker. I work at coles, I bought my Coopers Brew Kit from coles with a 5% discount from my colesmyer discount card. I do night-fill generally but sometimes they get me in as early as 12pm.

Some people would think the pay for stacking shelves in a supermarket would be crap. But considering I'm 23 and the SDA union negotiates pay-rises for us every 6 months, I get some decent cash.. My p/h went up from $19.03 to $19.34 just recently... Hahaa

I earn more p/h than a friend of mine who works for an Internet Service Provider, and another who works in construction..

Anyway, I'm off to a "peaceful" sleep (without that airlock ), have a good day or night, in Berlin.

 

[Mattorade]

I put the air-lock back in after a peaceful sleep last night, but now it doesn't seem to be bubbling every few seconds, it bubbles like about every 30 seconds to a minute.

Does this mean taking off the air-lock may have got the beer infected, or is it just not bubbling as much because it's half-way through the brewing process? Sunday is when I'm supposed to check with the hydrometer, and it's been brewing since monday.


Sorry if I seem to be asking so many questions, maybe I'm just being overly paranoid.. But better safe than sorry hey?