No room at the Inn

[Ducatiboy stu]

Unfortunatly previous governments have offered tax cuts to win elections,,,,,was a race to the bottom basically

You can only cut tax's so far, before you collect no tax at all

We might be a bit better off if we didnt have so many tax cuts and lived within our means a bit better

You know it makes sense

http://youtu.be/lOfZLb33uCg

 

[Liam_snorkel]

yeah the last two mining booms have been largely wasted on income tax cuts.

here is what I was getting at before:

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/norwegians-millionaires-norways-sovereign-wealth-fund/story?id=21488085

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

No one (me and you) is ever going to win , its structured that way.
I just bend over and take it like a man.
I gave up worrying about the situation long time ago,ignorance is bliss.
Less stress=longer happier more tax paid life.
Nev

 

[Liam_snorkel]

panem et circenses!

 

[Airgead]

No one (me and you) is ever going to win , its structured that way.
I just bend over and take it like a man.
I gave up worrying about the situation long time ago,ignorance is bliss.
Less stress=longer happier more tax paid life.
Nev

But that is winning...

We have to get away from the idea that paying tax is a bad thing. Its not. Its the contribution we all make to ensuring that we live in a good society. One where we have access to basic services when we need them. One that is fair and equitable.

If we go down the tax is bad path we end up like the US with massive inequality and massive social problems because of it. Parts of the US resemble third world countries (mind you so do many of our remote communities but not to the extent of the US). Whole cities are derelict (detroit) or have been hollowed out in the middle with wealthy suburbs surrounding a decayed urban centre. All because there isn't the revenue to provide basic services and the market won't because once you are poor, you no longer consume so the market ignores you. Markets are great for people with money. They suck balls for people without money.

Lack of basic services locks generations into poverty. No education (no free education and can't afford a paid one) so can't get a job. No transport (no affordable public transport and can't afford private) so can't get to a job. And so on.

Paying tax is a civic duty and I'm pleased to do so. It makes the society I live in a better place. I would gladly pay more so folks like WEAL don't have to wait all night on a trolly to see a doctor.

 

[Blind Dog]

But that is winning...

We have to get away from the idea that paying tax is a bad thing. Its not. Its the contribution we all make to ensuring that we live in a good society. One where we have access to basic services when we need them. One that is fair and equitable.

If we go down the tax is bad path we end up like the US with massive inequality and massive social problems because of it. Parts of the US resemble third world countries (mind you so do many of our remote communities but not to the extent of the US). Whole cities are derelict (detroit) or have been hollowed out in the middle with wealthy suburbs surrounding a decayed urban centre. All because there isn't the revenue to provide basic services and the market won't because once you are poor, you no longer consume so the market ignores you. Markets are great for people with money. They suck balls for people without money.

Lack of basic services locks generations into poverty. No education (no free education and can't afford a paid one) so can't get a job. No transport (no affordable public transport and can't afford private) so can't get to a job. And so on.

Paying tax is a civic duty and I'm pleased to do so. It makes the society I live in a better place. I would gladly pay more so folks like WEAL don't have to wait all night on a trolly to see a doctor.

Nicely put.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Its interesting that the rich do as much as possible to pay the minimum of tax, but expect the full benefit that tax's bring.

But then again, there is Kerry Packer....the golden Quote is at 3:00 mins......

http://youtu.be/nKeu79YSe84

 

[Eagleburger]

My wife is a full-time nurse in a private hospital and moonlights in the public system for a few shifts a week. In the private hospital she will have ~5 patients in her charge, public, typically 2. A lot of the public nurses bitch and moan about their workload to boot.

Fair tax? Death tax. Everyone starts from scratch.

 

[Dave70]

The Japanese arguably became the benchmark in technology and automotive endeavors by pretty much modeling the west.
The Swiss consistently place first in standard of living surveys and boast a joyous and seemingly eugenic population of strongmen and male and female tennis aces.
Lets stop trying to re invent the wheel and just rip off a system that has been shown to produce happy results.

One or two caveats however, we might need to pay for everything. I can recall paying in the order of $1.50 to take a piss in a Swiss public toilet. However, I would have been happy to go no 2 without making an arse gasket of toilet paper on the seat or squatting on the rim to avoid disease. The joint was spotless. No public toilet? You'll likley be buying a $4.50 aud cappuccino if you want to use the cafe's bathroom. Its like a giant ALDI store. Want a trolley? You pay. Forgot your shopping bag? We'll sell you one. The Swiss aren't big on discounting. Thats the price, don't like it, piss off to Italy.
Have a look at the list of relative CPI's of different countries, a pattern quickly emerges, then decide on the lifestyle you prefer.
You cant have it both ways. The Swiss seem to understand this and are obviously happy with the arrangement.

 

[madpierre06]

Paying tax is a civic duty and I'm pleased to do so. It makes the society I live in a better place. I would gladly pay more so folks like WEAL don't have to wait all night on a trolly to see a doctor.

The trouble is that this is more likely to be the mindset of us at the bottom of the socio-economic pile of poop. The further up the pile you manage to drag yourself the greater the desire and ability to minimise the amount you pay (and I refer here to those who have the very greatest of piles of dollar bills). I recall one year reading that Kerry Pcker had reported a taxable income of about $26,000. It is those in this bracket who can afford to avoid paying what is fair and equitable. Along with these are the multinationals who play their tax avoidance games. How about the bastards in power go after these mobs instead of syphoning more and more out of OUR ******* pockets and selling off public assets so they and their mates can add a few more trinkets to their share portfolios. Sorry 'bout the OT, this is something that really gives me the irrits.

Most importantly, WEAL mate I trust your treatment goes well and you get on the improve pretty damn quick.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

The Japanese arguably became the benchmark in technology and automotive endeavors by pretty much modeling the west.
The Swiss consistently place first in standard of living surveys and boast a joyous and seemingly eugenic population of strongmen and male and female tennis aces.
Lets stop trying to re invent the wheel and just rip off a system that has been shown to produce happy results.

One or two caveats however, we might need to pay for everything. I can recall paying in the order of $1.50 to take a piss in a Swiss public toilet. However, I would have been happy to go no 2 without making an arse gasket of toilet paper on the seat or squatting on the rim to avoid disease. The joint was spotless. No public toilet? You'll likley be buying a $4.50 aud cappuccino if you want to use the cafe's bathroom. Its like a giant ALDI store. Want a trolley? You pay. Forgot your shopping bag? We'll sell you one. The Swiss aren't big on discounting. Thats the price, don't like it, piss off to Italy.
Have a look at the list of relative CPI's of different countries, a pattern quickly emerges, then decide on the lifestyle you prefer.
You cant have it both ways. The Swiss seem to understand this and are obviously happy with the arrangement.

You can judge a country by their public toilets:
India=Bad
Sweden=Good
Australia=Medium
Nepal=Toilet ,everywhere

 

[Airgead]

The trouble is that this is more likely to be the mindset of us at the bottom of the socio-economic pile of poop. The further up the pile you manage to drag yourself the greater the desire and ability to minimise the amount you pay (and I refer here to those who have the very greatest of piles of dollar bills).

That is true. But it isn't universal. I'll come out and say that I'm well into the top tax bracket but would happily see that increase to 55 or 60c/dollar as my contribution to a fair and just society.

But yes, greed tends to breed more greed and the more you have the more you want. That's the sort of thing we need to move away from as a society.

We have become so fixated on our individual rights ( a la America's brand of hyper libertarianism) that we have forgotten that the flip side of rights in a civil society is responsibilities. We want all our rights without any of the responsibilities that make those rights work.

And Yeah - most important ...WEAL. Keep fighting.

I'll get off my high horse now before I do something stupid like run for government.

 

[wobbly]

If Australians wish to continue to have the government of the day pay for all manner of social engineering, security and welfare then we will inevitably have to have everyone share the load and accept that higher taxes are inevitable.

Take Sweden for example, a society that is held in high regard because of all manner of social welfare programs that the Swedes pay for through personal taxes and VAT
Individuals pay both national income tax and municipal (council) tax. In 2012 (latest data I could find) the average combined municipal (council) and income tax tables (converted to A$) were:-

• A$0 -A$66,959 = 30% tax
• A$66,959 to A$95,873 = 50% tax
• Over A$95,873 = 55% tax

The general rate of VAT for goods and services in Sweden is 25% of the assessed value. Certain goods and services are exempt from tax or taxed at a lower rate (12% or 6%). With food, hotels and restaurants taxed at 12% and public transport and books taxed at 6% with corporate tax rates being 26.3%.

And of course all companies and businesses should pay their full share as well with items like transfer pricing and inter company loans taxed at an appropriate rate

Wobbly