Mashing Thin...

[pb unleaded]

Hi all.
I have a 40 lt mash tun/boiler with a false bottom above the tap.
The space between the real and false bottoms holds 7 litres of water.
If I mash 5kg of grains I need to use another 12-13 lts just to cover the grains.
This makes it of total of nearly 20 lts which equates to 4lts to 1kg of grains ratio
with grains "barley" covered.
I want a batch size of 22-23, so my sparge water is scarce.
My question is:
Can I just add all the needed water to the mash to start with and do no sparge.
My efficiency will be lower, I know. But will this affect the final product I don't.

arthur

 

[NRB]

You can do that arthur, as long as you calculate a no-sparge brew. What would be even better would be to produce 2 beers - one with the first runnings (a stronger beer) and another with sparge runnings. Why waste the goodness you've gone to the trouble of creating during the 1+ hour mash?

 

[dicko]

Hi all.
I have a 40 lt mash tun/boiler with a false bottom above the tap.
The space between the real and false bottoms holds 7 litres of water.
If I mash 5kg of grains I need to use another 12-13 lts just to cover the grains.
This makes it of total of nearly 20 lts which equates to 4lts to 1kg of grains ratio
with grains "barley" covered.
I want a batch size of 22-23, so my sparge water is scarce.
My question is:
Can I just add all the needed water to the mash to start with and do no sparge.
My efficiency will be lower, I know. But will this affect the final product I don't.

arthur

I wouldn't do that Arthur, but what i have done is mash with enough water to just cover the mash and then mash out with the total amount of water and introduce it at a temperature which will raise the temp of the mash to around 76 deg c. I use Promash to calculate this.
A 40 litre tun may not be big enough to do this and if this is the case just fill the tun, and then sparge the rest of the water in as the level drops a bit.
With this method you may risk a stuck sparge due to the weight of liquor on top of the grain.
If you do, then stop the run off and re stir the mash, re circulate to clear and then continue the run off.
The quantities ( batch size) will depend of your boil off figures and other system losses and you will need to allow for all of these factors.
I hope this helps
Cheers

 

[matti]

Go with Dicko.
To achieve a good sparge it takes good practice.
Ensure grains properly mashed.
Using overly crushed malt with stirring and good practice (filtering/recuirculating) yields higher efficiency. Regular infusion mash requires to use more malt to achieve the fuller flavours.
$$$
Matti

 

[Millet Man]

Hi all.
I have a 40 lt mash tun/boiler with a false bottom above the tap.
The space between the real and false bottoms holds 7 litres of water.
If I mash 5kg of grains I need to use another 12-13 lts just to cover the grains.
This makes it of total of nearly 20 lts which equates to 4lts to 1kg of grains ratio
with grains "barley" covered.
I want a batch size of 22-23, so my sparge water is scarce.
My question is:
Can I just add all the needed water to the mash to start with and do no sparge.
My efficiency will be lower, I know. But will this affect the final product I don't.

arthur

Arthur,

Your ratios sound similar to mine. I typically mash at 4 litres per kg of malt and get excellent extraction (though my crush is very fine).

For example my last brew was 4.3 kg of malt with 19 litres of water in the mash, ratio of about 4.4 lt/kg. I lautered and sparged with 13 litres of water (fly sparging not batch sparging) to collect 25.5 litres of wort. Into fermenter had 20.5 litres of 1.050 wort, efficiency about 90%.

Sparge water volume does not have to be greater than mash water volume to get good efficiency.

In your case if you want a pre-boil volume of about 30 litres then you could use about 15 litre of sparge water, fly sparging it would be fine. May be OK batch sparging as well but I have never batch sparged so not for me to say.

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[Randall the Enamel Animal]

Kirin's premium beer Ichiban is a high liquor:grist, no-sparge brew. Low efficiency but very good quality wort.

 

[pb unleaded]

Thanks guys.

NRB's two beers method I use might
...and let my wife drink the light.

arthur

 

[Kai]

Kirin's premium beer Ichiban is a high liquor:grist, no-sparge brew. Low efficiency but very good quality wort.

I've read their label before and wondered what their vaunted 'first press' method was, that's about what I thought though it's surprising to hear of a big brewery doing something like that.

 

[JSB]

Kai,

Do you think it is similiar to Coopers Mash Press...

Jayse - can you comment ?

Cheers
JSB

 

[jayse]

Kai,

Do you think it is similiar to Coopers Mash Press...

Jayse - can you comment ?

Cheers
JSB

Nah thats a different thing altogether, they get 110% odd effiency with that beast I heard. 10% odd more effiency than the lab at the maltings. :blink:
Don't quote me or i'll come around and drink all your beer.


Boozed broozed and broken boned
Jayse

 

[Randall the Enamel Animal]

Kirin's premium beer Ichiban is a high liquor:grist, no-sparge brew. Low efficiency but very good quality wort.

I've read their label before and wondered what their vaunted 'first press' method was, that's about what I thought though it's surprising to hear of a big brewery doing something like that.

Malt shovel aint that big...

The cows that eat that particular spent grain must go into hyper-glycemic shock.

 

[Ash in Perth]

does mashing a little thinner affect the maltiness of the beer, assuming the final volume after the boil is the same? kirin certainly isnt known for its strong malt flavour!

Cheers

 

[KoNG]

Sure does Ash, along with mashing at a lower rest temp of around 62*C - 65*C.

 

[Kai]

Kirin's premium beer Ichiban is a high liquor:grist, no-sparge brew. Low efficiency but very good quality wort.

I've read their label before and wondered what their vaunted 'first press' method was, that's about what I thought though it's surprising to hear of a big brewery doing something like that.

Malt shovel aint that big...

The cows that eat that particular spent grain must go into hyper-glycemic shock.

Dunno about cows but I reckon chooks would freaking love it.

 

[Trev]

It's also a function of time, and pH and mash stiffness as well as temp, although temperature is predominant.

Some key points I picked up from a text about mash stiffness were;

Water to Grain Ratio

• Thick mashes are quicker (due enzyme concentration) and favour protein breakdown and dextrin production.
  
• Thin mashes are slower and favour conversion of starch to fermentable sugars
  
• Effects are relatively small over the 2-3 L/kg range