Liquid Yeast - Ok To Pitch Without Starter?

[captaincleanoff]

sure its been discussed before, but I only got a few mins, and am starting the brew tomorrow morning!

I'm using the WLP001 yeast for a 52L batch of the little creatures bright ale clone. I obviously don't have time to make a starter by tomorrow morning, so is it ok to pitch the whole vile of liquid yeast straight in?

Also, the recipe includes irish moss. Not exactly sure what this is, and I dont have it.. will it make a difference. Thanks for any help



edit: bright ale, not pale

 

[kram]

www.mrmalty.com will give you some ideas of the yeast count you'll need.

 

[Steve Lacey]

Mate, yes, you should make a starter for that volume of wort and it is not too late to start now for a brew day tomorrow.

If you have the malt extract available, make a 2-3 L starter of 1.040 gravity wort. Force cool and make sure it is very well aerated and then pitch the yeast tonight. Aerate it some more when you wake up and throug hthe day tomorrow. It should have propagated enough to give you enough yeast cells for a healthy fermentation. That's what I would do anyway. If you want to really make sure, make your wort and allow it to sit overnight and pitch the yeast on Sunday.

As for the Irish Moss, it is not an essential part of the brew. It is just some stuff that comes from seaweed (Carageenan, a long-chain polysaccharide if you must know) that reacts with proteins in the boiling wort to make them coagulate together and settle out of the wort, thus making sure you get a really clear wort to runoff to the fermenter. However as long as you have a good vigorous boil, the wort will be fine.

Good luck with your brew.

 

[Hogan]

sure its been discussed before, but I only got a few mins, and am starting the brew tomorrow morning!

I'm using the WLP001 yeast for a 52L batch of the little creatures bright ale clone. I obviously don't have time to make a starter by tomorrow morning, so is it ok to pitch the whole vile of liquid yeast straight in?

Also, the recipe includes irish moss. Not exactly sure what this is, and I dont have it.. will it make a difference. Thanks for any help



edit: bright ale, not pale

WhiteLabs recommend pitching one of their tubes direct to a 21 lt. wort. For better, faster fermentation they suggest making a starter. For a 52 lt. batch I would definitely make a starter or pitch 2 tubes. FWIW you will probably get away with one tube but ............

Irish Moss is like Whirlflock. It is added to the kettle when the wort is 15 minutes from flameout. It helps solidify and drop solids in the boil.

Cheers, Hoges.

 

[captaincleanoff]

ok to make this 2-3L- starter, do I use about a 250gs of malt, the whole vial and the rest water

 

[Steve Lacey]

Yes. ideally 2 L water + 200g malt or 3 L water + 300 g malt (but 250 g in either 2 or 3 L would be fine). Boil it for 10 minutes. Force cool it and transfer to a sanitised big glass jar or big sanitized soft drink bottle ... make sure EVERYTHING on the post-boil side is sanitized well with your sanitizer of choice. Make sure you aerate the starter wort well after it has cooled down. Use a stainless kitchen whisk (sanitized of course) or slotted spoon or if it is ina big bottle, you can shake it up and open the lid, shake and open the lid a few times; that is good too. You need to be sure the wort is below 25 degrees, preferably around 20 degrees, then the last thing you do is add the yeast, give it a bit more of a shake. Cover the top of the container with aluminium foil with plenty of overlap and pressed down against the jar/bottle. You don't need an airlock or anything more fancy. You will see the fermentation by the krausen on the top of the starter tomorrow.

Hope this helps.

 

[Hogan]

ok to make this 2-3L- starter, do I use about a 250gs of malt, the whole vial and the rest water

100gm of DME per liter of water. When the starter boil is done and the wort cooled to 22c. add the vial of yeast to the starter. You can wait 48 hours for it to ferment out completly or you can pitch it a high krausen - maybe 18-24 hours. Depends on the yeast gods.

Cheers, Hoges.

 

[mfdes]

No way a tube is enough to pitch such a large batch. By the time they get to us the viability is low enough they can be dodgy on a US5Gal (19L) batch.
Always keep your yeast waiting for the beer, never the other way around.
You can always use MrMalty to calculate how many vials you should use if you're not making a starter.

MFS.

 

[Gulf Brewery]

I obviously don't have time to make a starter by tomorrow morning, so is it ok to pitch the whole vile of liquid yeast straight in?

Hi

You can pitch the tube straight into 20 litres, but a starter is a better way. Even though you don't have enough time to kick off a fully active starter, it still would be good to get the yeast multiplying and growing before pitching into your wort.

If you can, get a starter going 2 or 3 days before your batch.

Cheers
Pedro

 

[captaincleanoff]

cool thanks guys. I'm going to make a 2l starter tonight. 200gm of dextrose, 1 vial, is this right? You guys reckon this would be ready for sunday morn? Sorry, I'm a bit of a noob in this area

 

[Screwtop]

Geez, read the reply's captaincleanoff. DME man.

If you can, chill your wort down to minimise the risk of infection, even as low as 4 deg until you have a suitable starter ready. Pitch the starter at high krausen, don't forget to take into account the addition of 2 - 3 litres of unhopped wort to your finished volume. Work your hopping on the total volume to get the IBU's correct.

 

[Stuster]

No dextrose. You need malt extract. 200g of that, 2L of water. Boil it up. Cool it (to low 20s say). Into a sanitised container with some headspace. Give it a good shake to aerate. Add the vial of yeast. Shake it every time you come past. There should be some good yeast growth between now and Sunday morning so you'll have lots more yeasties ready to get to work for you.

 

[PostModern]

cool thanks guys. I'm going to make a 2l starter tonight. 200gm of dextrose, 1 vial, is this right? You guys reckon this would be ready for sunday morn? Sorry, I'm a bit of a noob in this area

In all those posts above, where did you read dextrose????

You're making a 52L batch and call youself a noob?

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I would keep your starter below 1025 SG , You want your yeast to increase bio mass ( increased cell count) not produce alcohol so keep the starter low in SG and agitate as often as possible.."Scientific stuff removed from the equation".Use malt extract of some sort to give your starter all the nutrients it needs and add yeast nutrient Here which is a great help and pitch at high Krausen (Big head stage.) Good luck.Its all a big learning curve.
GB

 

[captaincleanoff]

haha sorry guys.. i actually meant to write malt, I dont know why I said dextrose!

 

[PostModern]

GB, do you have a reference for 1.025 being optimal for yeast reproduction? It's been a while since I did "research" on this, but I just remember (as others also seem to) 1.040 as being the optimal for cell growth, even if you're tossing the starter and just pitching the left over slurry.

 

[onescooter]

The main thign I have gotten out of situations like this is.... Patience is a virtue.
You spend a lot of time and money, especially with a 52l batch, whenever you brew. You don't want to get a couple of weeks later with a beer that is infected, or hasn't completely attenuated, because of impatience. My new belief is, if you're not completely ready to brew, put if off for another time. I have poured too much beer down the drain by trying to rush things by an hour or two.
Cheers
Scott.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

GB, do you have a reference for 1.025 being optimal for yeast reproduction? It's been a while since I did "research" on this, but I just remember (as others also seem to) 1.040 as being the optimal for cell growth, even if you're tossing the starter and just pitching the left over slurry.

PM With out giving you a direct reference right now," long day with house reno's (beers with the builder)". Start your starters low then build then up to your pitching brews OG. Just as you should start your starter at higher temps (optimal temp growth circa 24C) and drop then to your wort pitching temps. I will get back to you on this with a scientific exlpaination or reference.
GB

 

[Steve Lacey]

GB, we are hosting Chris White here in Tokyo tomorrow, so I will ask him about it. I have certainly heard that a lower gravity is better for starters because there is less osmotic stress on the yeast and that makes for healthier division. Basically you want the yeast to multiply in as healthy a condition as possible. Plenty of dissolved oxygen and low osmotic pressure makes for healthy yeast. The numbers i have heard are 1040 or below. Never heard 1025, but it might be good under controlled laboratory conditions or something.

 

[Hogan]

GB, do you have a reference for 1.025 being optimal for yeast reproduction? It's been a while since I did "research" on this, but I just remember (as others also seem to) 1.040 as being the optimal for cell growth, even if you're tossing the starter and just pitching the left over slurry.

PM - here's a post from Dr Kristen England that supports the 1.025 rule. It was posted on another forum.

So take your WLP vial and pitch it into say 500ml of 1025-30 starter. People make starters WAY to high in OG. You make it 1025 the only thing you are doing is creating baby yeast. SO...say 3 days or so around 21-24c. Pitch that whole thing into a 2L starter. Few more days...maybe 3 or 4. For both, swirl anytime you can. You should have a good .5-1" of yeast on the bottom of a 2L flask by now which is more than enough yeast. This keeps you from having to do 6.5L starters

Kristen England, Ph.D.
BJCP Continuing Education Director
Master Judge

Cheers, Hoges.

Edit: Post info. Avitar - mashweasel http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic....&highlight=