Is There One Single Beer Merchant That Refridgerates Imports?

[Bizier]

Is There One Single Beer Merchant That Refridgerates Imports?

I am continually upset by the temperatures that merchants and pervayors of 'fine beer' store their ultra-premium stock at. I am not willing to shell over $30 or so for a single if I can see it has been stored between 25-35 degrees, especially if it is hoppy, and was released some time ago. I am sick of being disappointed by badly oxidised beer (not positive long-cellaring oxidation).

Is there one bottle shop in Australia that maintains refridgeration right through from delivery to sale?

I mean, these poor beers have it hard enough just getting here. They don't need further brutality.

 

[WSC]

Good question. I think your answer is no.

This was a side discussion to the grey imports discussion.

More needs to be done by all in the supply chain to ensure the beer we pay top dollar for reaches us in the best possible condition.

 

[.DJ.]

i read somewhere in last few days that the beer and spirit co (brewdog importers) used refridgeratied containers for imports...

 

[chadjaja]

In Tuesday's age they said they bring Brew Dog in refrig containers now. If one person does it then its not out of the question others do too.

 

[Bizier]

i read somewhere in last few days that the beer and spirit co (brewdog importers) used refridgeratied containers for imports...

I would believe it, as those beers seem to get here fresh, and from a place that is none too close.

 

[Sammus]

no idea, but I've tried a million different imports from figtree cellars that I havent found anywhere else, and not one of them has ever exhibited characteristics associated to mistreatment.

 

[bum]

With the exception of the transport being refrigerated, I don't think it matters in the slightest. Sure, selling beer from a fridge is nice (both Dan's and 1st Choice have some refrigerated imports and Slowbeer has some in the fridge too) if I want to drink it soon but I know damned well that no-one warehouses/stores their beer refrigerated so it is no different to putting it in the fridge when you get home in terms of longterm stability, really.

Again: with the exception of refrigeration during transport.

 

[Bizier]

OK, I used to live behind TIGS, and was frequently in Figtree Cellars. They do actually store their beer pretty well. BUT I can personally vouch for having bought a whole case of Coopers 06 Vintage that they had sitting there (purchased dec 08) and it was very badly oxidised. I would suggest that if it had been refridgerated, it would have been marvellous.

I think it does matter if you have an (especially US) IPA that has been stored warm, it turns it into a different, lesser beer.

ED: grammar

 

[bum]

I think it does matter if you have an (especially US) IPA that has been stored warm, it turns it into a different, lesser beer.

I agree and that isn't what I'm suggesting. What I'm suggesting that POS refrigeration will do nothing for a beer that has been stored in a hot warehouse/sitting at ambient out the back for months.

I share your trepidation when buying expensive bottled beers. It is a gamble.

 

[Fents]

There are some that dont even treat local beer properly let alone imports.

 

[eamonnfoley]

I wonder how Weihenstephen is transported? It is always in good, fresh condition. I know bottlos turn over a lot of it, but it must be refrigerated, or coming in via a very direct route.

 

[DanRayner]

I wonder how Weihenstephen is transported? It is always in good, fresh condition. I know bottlos turn over a lot of it, but it must be refrigerated, or coming in via a very direct route.

From what I understand Weihenstephaner is not refrigerated in either OS travel nor Australia-wide travel. And for most Australians drinking it, Weihenstephaner has come across the Nullarbor given that its distributor - Phoenix Imports - is located in WA. And these beers come to the shop I work in on the back of large, unrefrigerated trucks.

It, like German Beverage Imports' (a distribution company part of Sydney's Lowenbrau Bierkeller) Franziskaner, have a very high turnover of stock.

I don't think refrigeration makes much difference at all for most well-made beers. Get a well-made beer that is pretty directly shipped with a high turnover of stock and it will be the one to stand out as a great beer regardless of refrigeration.

As an aside: Can beers become oxidised without the presence of oxygen in the bottle? I wouldn't have thought so. Surely it has to be in the bottle to begin with?

 

[Bizier]

Can beers become oxidised without the presence of oxygen in the bottle? I wouldn't have thought so. Surely it has to be in the bottle to begin with?

I am not a scientist, but to the best of my knowledge many brewers go to to extraordinary lengths to remove as much oxygen as possible from the bottling process, but there is inevitably a very small amout that makes it in, plus there are other components, especially in hoppy beers, that can either cause or increase oxidation once it has set in.

Scientists feel free to chime in.

 

[Kai]

From what I understand Weihenstephaner is not refrigerated in either OS travel nor Australia-wide travel. And for most Australians drinking it, Weihenstephaner has come across the Nullarbor given that its distributor - Phoenix Imports - is located in WA. And these beers come to the shop I work in on the back of large, unrefrigerated trucks.

It, like German Beverage Imports' (a distribution company part of Sydney's Lowenbrau Bierkeller) Franziskaner, have a very high turnover of stock.

I don't think refrigeration makes much difference at all for most well-made beers. Get a well-made beer that is pretty directly shipped with a high turnover of stock and it will be the one to stand out as a great beer regardless of refrigeration.

As an aside: Can beers become oxidised without the presence of oxygen in the bottle? I wouldn't have thought so. Surely it has to be in the bottle to begin with?

b
I'd venture that weihenstephaner (that's a hard one to type on an iPhone!) is an extraordinarily well-made beer. And even so, I have drunk a fair few mediocre ones in my lifetime. Almost any beer is not going to be at its peak after traveling across the worl refrigerated, let alone just across Australia. Weihenstephan might do a great job, but the vast majority of craft breweries are not going to have the level of sophistication to match that. I think beer is something meant to be made and drunk as close to home base as possible.

In a perfect world though, I think I'd see refrigerated transport (from a free and endless energy source) and maybe retail storage at cellar temperature...

 

[DanRayner]

I am not a scientist, but to the best of my knowledge many brewers go to to extraordinary lengths to remove as much oxygen as possible from the bottling process, but there is inevitably a very small amout that makes it in, plus there are other components, especially in hoppy beers, that can either cause or increase oxidation once it has set in.

Scientists feel free to chime in.

Hence my comment about well-made beers - ones with minimal oxidation. I know Wicked Elf in NSW go to incredible lengths to minimise oxidation - and get regular assays performed to audit their bottling.

Yeast autolysis can happen with warmer temps and bottle conditioned beers (or beers that have not been pasteurised) - this will give off nasty musty, off-flavours with time. I'm pretty sure the bigger wheat beers like Franziskaner have been pasteurised which will slow the production of off-flavours from their ever-present Hefe

 

[eamonnfoley]

I don't think refrigeration makes much difference at all for most well-made beers. Get a well-made beer that is pretty directly shipped with a high turnover of stock and it will be the one to stand out as a great beer regardless of refrigeration.

I think its more to do with the high turnover and fast transport. Hasnt been in a hot environment for very long if at all. Probably comes straight off the ship and onto shelves - rather than sitting in a hot warehouse. Leave it a few more months and it will be struggling. I'm in Perth too, so thats probably got something to do with it!

Major breweries (Weihenstephen are pretty big) have better packaging facilities, which helps a lot.

But its a proven fact beer will age/stale faster when its warmer. Beer is generally better fresh, and near the source. It doesnt travel well.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Every single beer, from every single manufacturer - ages more quickly at higher temperatuers than lower temperatures. Through both oxidation and through non oxidation related aging reactions.

And if you look, you will find that there are in fact, quite a few breweries, who take great care to ensure that their beer is refridgerated from point of manufacture to point of sale... And failing point of sale, as far down the distribution chain as they can manage. I think you might be very surprised.

Every beer will be better if it is stored cool, and any beer which is not going to benefit from an "aging" effect like a barley wine or old ale - should be stored cold. If the beer you are drinking was stored any other way, then its not as fresh, and very likely not as good, as it could be.

Stores dont keep beers unrefridgerated because it doesn't matter, they keep beers unrefridgerated because its cheaper to do so.

 

[Bizier]

And if you look, you will find that there are in fact, quite a few breweries, who take great care to ensure that their beer is refridgerated from point of manufacture to point of sale... And failing point of sale, as far down the distribution chain as they can manage. I think you might be very surprised.

I think I know what you are getting at there. I know that any brewer/y worth their salt is going to be concerned about handling. I am sure that I could get a fresh megabrew any day of the week that has experienced next to no mishandling (regular drinkers are pretty intolerant of changes).

It just makes it seem more unfair that the best beers receive the worst treatment.

 

[brendanos]

As an aside: Can beers become oxidised without the presence of oxygen in the bottle? I wouldn't have thought so. Surely it has to be in the bottle to begin with?

If a beer has had had any oxygen introduced post fermentation then it will be permanently damaged fairly quickly. Even if it is scrubbed of oxygen before packaging or bottle conditioned it will still show oxidative/stale character much quicker than well handled* beer.



edit *I meant handling in the brewery cellar but I do also believe that handling by distributors/stores/consumers is equally paramount!

 

[bcp]

Every single beer, from every single manufacturer - ages more quickly at higher temperatuers than lower temperatures. Through both oxidation and through non oxidation related aging reactions.

And if you look, you will find that there are in fact, quite a few breweries, who take great care to ensure that their beer is refridgerated from point of manufacture to point of sale... And failing point of sale, as far down the distribution chain as they can manage. I think you might be very surprised.

Every beer will be better if it is stored cool, and any beer which is not going to benefit from an "aging" effect like a barley wine or old ale - should be stored cold. If the beer you are drinking was stored any other way, then its not as fresh, and very likely not as good, as it could be.

Stores dont keep beers unrefridgerated because it doesn't matter, they keep beers unrefridgerated because its cheaper to do so.

That's challenging, because i have to use the fridge i ferment in to store my beer - so every ale that goes into the fermenter brings the back temp up to 18-19. At least it isn't hot.