Help With Ag Recipe For English Bitter

[Adzmax]

Hi all. For those of you from Melbourne I visit the Bells Hotel (www.bellshotel.com.au) on Moray St in South Melbourne at least twice a month and really enjoy some of their own beers, especially the "Black Ban Bitter". I'm looking to create something similar, not unnecessarily a clone but close.

For those of you who don't know the beer they describe it as -

Malt - Majority of Australian pale malt with a small amount of crystal, to enhance colour and structure.

Hops - Traditional English style hops. Fuggles were added at the start of the boil for bitterness and the aroma comes from the late addition of East Kent Goldings.

Yeast & Fermentation - The wort was inoculated with an English ale yeast, and fermented for 6 days at 160C.

The Beer - Black Ban Bitter, is an English style bitter with a light golden hue. The nose is a blend of toffee and caramel with fruity esters leading to a rounded full palate, finishing with the smooth bitterness from the East Kent Goldings.

I recently made an Irish Ale which I thought was super yummy and I've modified the recipe to hopefully get it a little closer to this beer but I'm after some input on which strain of Wyeast I should use, my hop additions and grain bill (I know it varies quite considerably from Black Ban but I'll work with it).

As this was similar to one of my first AG's I'd also like some advice on the Mash profile as this only used a single infusion with no mash out and I've since done step mash's etc.


My recipe is -

Type: All Grain

Batch Size: 23.00 L

Boil Size: 27.43 L
Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00


Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.00 kg Golden Promise Malt (Bairds) (5.0 EBC) Grain 62.02 %
2.00 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 31.01 %
0.45 kg Carared (Weyermann) (47.3 EBC) Grain 6.98 %
40.00 gm Fuggles [4.40 %] (60 min) Hops 18.0 IBU
40.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (20 min) Hops 10.4 IBU
40.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (10 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)


Est Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.23 %
Bitterness: 28.4 IBU
Est Color: 16.9 EBC

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out Total Grain Weight: 6.45 kg

Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out
45 min Mash @ 69.0 C


Any comments, advice or other recipes would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance :icon_cheers:

 

[winkle]

Yeast & Fermentation - The wort was inoculated with an English ale yeast, and fermented for 6 days at 160C.

That could be a touch warm.
Persumably that should be 16 C which is on the cool side for an ale.

The recipe looks ok at a glance - I'll run it through Promash or Beersmith this arvo if I get a chance.

 

[MVZOOM]

I'm on my 3rd AG English Bitter - not quite ESB, but close. The last one went something like:

25L Batch

4.0Kg Ale malt (I'm using Bairds I think)
400g light munich (not strictly English, but I wanted to introduce a little bit of biscuity malt flavour)
100g wheat malt
200g dark Crystal

Single bittering addition at 60mins, boil for 90 min total. Fuggles or EKG, I can't remember the AA, but at the moment it's all fuggles, around 35g at 60mins.

OG was 1044, FG will be around 1005 or so. Ferementing with US56 for 14 days, no secondary, straight to keg. 2 weeks of conditioning and away we go. Hope that helps!

Cheers - Mike

 

[Adzmax]

I've got it in Beersmith and have attached it below though I haven't fully edited it yet to suite this beer, still has the Irish yeast on it etc.

View attachment East_Kent_Ale.bsm

Any suggestions on the strain of yeast as I only have Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale at the moment from the previous recipe.

I was also considering using some of Ross's liquid hops - the EK Goldings for added aroma and taste

 

[MVZOOM]

In my experiance, English bitter's don't have much hop aroma - and arn't actually that bitter either. If I were you, have a look in the recipe section and pick an easy one first. Use that as a baseline. Maybe get a couple of different bottles and neck them first, just to re-aquant yourself with the outcome?

Cheers - Mike

 

[winkle]

I've got it in Beersmith and have attached it below though I haven't fully edited it yet to suite this beer, still has the Irish yeast on it etc.

View attachment 16726

Any suggestions on the strain of yeast as I only have Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale at the moment from the previous recipe.

I was also considering using some of Ross's liquid hops - the EK Goldings for added aroma and taste

Nottingham gives a good (& quick) result if you want to use a dry yeast. Can't comment on the liquid hops since I haven't used them but I love using EKG plugs in bitters.

 

[goatherder]

I reckon drop the munich - it's out of place in a beer like this. Track down some pale or medium English crystal instead of the carared and use about 5-10%. If you use closer to 10% you'll need to drop your mash temp to compensate - try about 65-66 for 10%. That hop bill will stand on it's own without the liquid hops although I'd up the IBUs to about 40. A bitter should be reasonably bitter

Any of the Wyeast English ale strains will work here - there are heaps of them. Grab one, get to know it for a few brews then move onto another one. Some are more popular than others but I haven't tasted a bad one yet.

 

[drsmurto]

ESBs are what prompted me to take up brewing again after a 5 year hiatus and the few kit attempts/failures pushed me to the darkside. Ironically i have made only 1 ESB in my 9 AGs as i discovered there are so many styles to play around with.

Anyway, this was my attempt at something like Landlord using different malt and yeast

3.60 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 96.77 %
0.12 kg Caramalt (Joe White) (49.3 EBC) Grain 3.23 %
32.00 gm Fuggles [6.10 %] (60 min) Hops 24.5 IBU
25.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.06 %] (30 min) Hops 12.2 IBU
25.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.70 %] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs British Ale (Wyeast Labs #1098) [Starter 1500 ml] Yeast-Ale

Very easy drinking.

My only comment would be that you have a hell of a lot of munich for an ESB.......

 

[Stuster]

I think the recipe is perhaps a bit over the top for a bitter. It won't make a bad beer, but as is, it looks more like an APA than a bitter IMO. I'd say cut back a bit on the late hop additions. but up the bitterness a touch overall. I like somewhere round the 0.7-0.8 mark for BU:GU, so for a 1054 beer I'd say more like the 40IBU mark. To your tastes though.

I'd drop the Munich, or at least cut it back to half of what you've got. I've never used carared, but it does get some good reports, so why not, but English crystal is also nice in an English bitter. The percentage of crystal you have looks right to me.

For yeast, from the more recent beers I've drunk with 1084, it depends if you like blackberries/blackcurrant because that yeast seems to produce fruity esters along those lines. 1968 is a good yeast for English ales, but I've never used any of the other Wyeast English ones so can't really comment on that. As winkle says, 16C is on the cool side, and if you do ferment there, be careful the yeast doesn't go to sleep. 18-20C is probably better to get more ester development. Anyway, lots of possible changes, but there's no need to make them. What you have will definitely make a nice beer, perhaps not quite a bitter though.

 

[troydo]

i modified ross english bitter to make it an esb

However this uses NZ hops

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Beer
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: English Special or Best Bitter
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 27.00 L
Boil Size: 37.28 L
Estimated OG: 1.043 SG
Estimated Color: 20.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 33.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type %
or IBU
3.60 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain
66.79 %
0.65 kg Maize, Flaked (Thomas Fawcett) (3.9 EBC) Grain
12.06 %
0.50 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain
9.28 %
0.25 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain
4.64 %
0.12 kg Caraaroma (256.1 EBC) Grain
2.23 %
0.12 kg Caramel Wheat Malt (90.6 EBC) Grain
2.23 %
0.12 kg Carared (39.4 EBC) Grain
2.23 %
0.03 kg Chocolate Malt (886.5 EBC) Grain
0.56 %
48.00 gm NZ Goldings [3.70 %] (60 min) Hops
15.6 IBU
40.00 gm NZ Goldings [3.70 %] (20 min) Hops
7.9 IBU
30.00 gm NZ Goldings [3.70 %] (15 min) Hops
4.8 IBU
30.00 gm NZ Goldings [3.70 %] (10 min) Hops
3.5 IBU
30.00 gm NZ Goldings [3.70 %] (5 min) Hops
1.9 IBU
1 Pkgs Windsor Yeast (Lallemand #-) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 5.39 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description
Step Temp
90 min Mash In Add 14.07 L of water at 69.5 C
63.5 C

 

[warrenlw63]

I think Adzmax originally requested something similar to Bell's Black Ban Bitter. Which stylistically speaking is a little off track for an English Bitter. I'd say it's closer to some of the Summer Bitters that are made.

As for yeast strain for your clone/approximation maybe something a little standard like Wyeast 1028 or 1275.

I applaud your choice. Black Ban is a lovely drop. Haven't had it for a few years but really enjoyed it in a few boozy sessions at Bell's.

Warren -

 

[winkle]

Now I had a decent look at it , yeah that is a fair bit of Munich. Check out AndrewQLDs Bosuns Best Bitter in the recipe section or Tonys EKG Bitter as starting points.
I'll send you my recipe if you'd like once I've stopped bludging at work

Edit : Warren's is making more sense than me - I should read more careful like.

 

[warrenlw63]

Edit : Warren's is making more sense than me - I should read more careful like.

That's gotta be a first for me. :lol:

I'm the same as everybody else. I got about 10 English Bitter recipes I'd love to rattle off. Always my fave threads.

Warren -

 

[Adzmax]

Maybe I'm best to use the rest of my Irish 1084 and plan another ESB I think I'll go down that track then for now but feel free to keep the recipes coming

 

[beersom]

I use 25% light munich in my bitter. Works a treat IMHO

 

[Adzmax]

I do quite like that Munich taste though it's not to style

 

[Stuster]

I do quite like that Munich taste though it's not to style

Just brew it.

 

[beersom]

I do quite like that Munich taste though it's not to style

ah ... do you count style as taste or process.
Don't think of munich malt as being a German only product but rather as another base malt. You can even get British Munich malt !!!
Many a pale ale or bitter has been made with a healthy dash of munich or similar

 

[Adzmax]

OK fair comment

See in my humble opinion taste is ALL that matters.

Yes, yes I will brew it and report back I shall!

 

[geoffi]

If I'm using Maris Otter, I leave out the Munich. I prefer to let the MO do the talking. With other pale malts I add some Munich, as I think they usually can use some extra oomph.