Have L Racked Too Soon?

[deanelliott]

Hi guys. I'm currently fermenting my first extract Pilsener and was after some advice. It was planned as a 9ltr batch, but since l'm using the system for the first time l didn't hit the 9ltrs after the boil. I only got 8 (although l still hit smack on my expected OG of 1050). Therefore l'm guessing she's going to be a bit thicker as a result.

My problem is, last night (after 1.5 weeks in the primary) it hit 1018 and l decided to rack it to the secondary. I thought since its only dropping 1gravity point per day it had slowed enough to rack. Have l racked it too early, and will it make a difference? I was thinking l wouldn't get down to my orginal expected FG of 1012 since the change in volume so it was ok ... now l'm not so sure. Was l too keen??

Stealth.

 

[razz]

Hi stealth. What yeast did you use ? I would go ahead and rack it. The agitation may get you down those last few points, don't worry about it to much. Keep everything clean, your temps steady and the beer looks after it's self.

 

[deanelliott]

Hi Razz, Yeast was SAF 34/70. I'm guessing if l leave it in secondary for long enough it'll get down. My main worry though is exploding bottles during conditioning.

 

[Trough Lolly]

Plenty of pils brewers rack their beer at 1.018 or lower so you're in good company - just don't rush the lager and you'll end up with a nice beer.
You are storing the secondary in the fridge, below 10C, aren't you?
Cheers,
TL

 

[deanelliott]

At the moment its in the Laundry. With the Antarctic temps we've been getting its varying between 9C overnight to 13C in the arvo. I've got room in the beer fridge for it, will leaving it at 4C help it?

 

[razz]

Stealth, the ideal temp fot that yeast is approx 12 degrees so your laundry should be ideal to finish of the ferment. Put it in the fridge once you are happy the ferment is over. Lager for as long as you need (2 weeks) then bottle.

 

[deanelliott]

Thanks Razz. Only the problem was that l already racked, so its in the secondary now. Do you think l should leave it in the current spot to ferment down some more then put it in the fridge at 4C in a few days to finish lagering?

Stealth.

 

[Trough Lolly]

Stealth, the ideal temp fot that yeast is approx 12 degrees so your laundry should be ideal to finish of the ferment. Put it in the fridge once you are happy the ferment is over. Lager for as long as you need (2 weeks) then bottle.

W34/70 lager yeast will happily ferment at 10C, which is why I suggested putting it in the fridge or similar temp controlled chamber - ie, to smoothe out the temp range over the day and night...If the gravity is still in the teens then you should try to get the final gravity down to around 1.012 if possible - I'm not sure of the composition of your recipe - you might have a decent proporotion of maltose based sugars or dextrins that are not so easily fermented by the yeast during primary fermentation. Sometimes a rousing will bring the yeast back online and get you down to a safer bottling gravity.
As Razz suggests, the laundry at those temps is ok - your brew may fluctuate as the temps change, due to a relatively low volume, but if cold conditioning is not possible in a more stable environment, then it will do...
There should be sufficient yeast in suspension to finish off the beer to the target FG and since you're using W34/70 it will still improve and condition the lager even down to single digit temps.
Next time, I'd suggest you leave the lager wort in primary for at least 2 weeks before racking to the cold conditioning vessel. I've fermented W34/70 in Bavarian Lager wort for 4 weeks plus under 10C, with no nasty side effects...
One other thing - have you had a taste of the wort yet? Did you pick up any sulphurous or butterscotch notes in the sample???
Cheers,
TL

 

[deanelliott]

Trough Lolly, I tried the wort and l couldn't pickout any sulphury scents, dont remember any butterscotch either. Am l more suseptable to off notes because of the smaller batch?

I'm thinking l might rouse the yeast & leave it in the laundry for a while to see if l can get it down, then l'll fridge it after that for another 2 weeks at 4-6C (whatever my fridge sits at.) Sounds like it'll still come out ok.

Thanks for the suggestions, it seems l'm not in as dire trouble as l'd previously thought

 

[Trough Lolly]

Mate, you're doing ok - if you can get the gravity down a bit more, then good - if not, don't worry, bottle it after a few weeks lagering.
The reason I asked about sulphur or butterscotch is in relation to the viability of the yeast. Sulphur is a common byproduct of many lager strains and it readily clears up when you give beer to condition or lager beyond the fermentation stage - but that doesn't mean that your yeast is dead if you don't have any sulphurous notes! The butterscotch notes tend to indicate the presence of diacetyl in the beer, which can also be removed by resting the beer at room temps for a couple of days.
Cheers,
TL

 

[deanelliott]

Ok, great. Thanks for all the info Trough Lolly ... l'll let you know how l go. Out of interest will all lager strains give off the sulphur smell during ferementation, or is it only occasionally? I'm just wondering if its been there for every sample l've drawn off but l just can't smell it!!

Stealth.

 

[Trough Lolly]

Ok, great. Thanks for all the info Trough Lolly ... l'll let you know how l go. Out of interest will all lager strains give off the sulphur smell during ferementation, or is it only occasionally? I'm just wondering if its been there for every sample l've drawn off but l just can't smell it!!

Stealth.

If you have detectable levels of sulphur in your lagers during fermentation, you'll soon smell it! It's that delightful rotten eggs smell, Sulphur dioxide. It's largely caused by cold temp fermentation and the extent to which each strain produces sulphury notes varies from strain to strain. Of course, you could substantially reduce the sulphur present in the lager by fermenting the lager yeast at warmer temps, eg, room temp, but then you'd risk adding excessive esters (fruity notes) and fusels (solvent like notes) to the lager, so it's a bit of a balancing act and yet another reason as to why it's best to ferment lagers in the fridge and not at ambient room temps, unless you live in Canberra!!
An article was posted on the HBD.org digest, way back in 2002 that discussed this very issue, so to save more typing, I'll paste and quote it...

Subject: lager yeast types
The other day I mentioned I was trying to find an article I once read about lager yeasts being being seperated into two categories. Well I found it (although I don't have it right in front of me as I type this)
The article was by Ray Daniels and was in an issue of Zymurgy devoted mostly to lagers. I believe he was saying that one class of lager yeasts (carsberg-type) was sulfur producing, and the other (tuborg) was estery. He gave only one example of the tuborg type, Wyeast 2007.
Examples he gave for carlsberg yeasts were Wyeast 2206,2308,2214, among others. Interestingly, George Fix in "Analysis of brewing techniques" broke lager yeasts out into two categories, which he distinguished as "malty", and (I think) "dry/crisp". Some of the examples George gave for the "malty" yeasts were the same ones Ray gave for the "sulfury" yeasts. I believe Wyeast 2007, which Ray classified as estery, was one of the examples George gave for "dry/crisp".
It is an interesting subject. I'm not crazy about sulfur in my beer, but I have noticed that many of the strains that throw sulfur end up with a nice malt character after the sulfur is reduced. I recall reading in Brewing Techniques somewhere that it was thought by some that lagers with all sulfur character removed were somewhat insipid. In my experience it takes 6 to 8 weeks of cold storage (46F or so) before the sulfur levels were mostly reduced and I could enjoy my beers. This is why I have an interest in lager yeasts that aren't as sulfury. I'm thinking maybe beers produced with estery yeasts may require less lagering time before they taste good. If I was a patient man I may have taken up winemaking as a hobby :^)
//snipped remainder for brevity\\

Cheers,
TL

 

[deanelliott]

Thanks TL.

Your a Champ!