Getting A Double Batch Out Of A Keggle

[Robbo2234]

Hi All,

I have been doing some searching and found some info on get doubles from a keggel can some one explain to me how to do it please?

Thanks

 

[pk.sax]

Stand there with a spray bottle full of water to kill the foam. Watched a friend do it. He still had a boilover the moment he turned his back.
Or use more grain and sparge less to brew smaller volume over gravity. Then dilute to fermenter. I've gotten 30L out of my keggle without a boilover. ymmv.

 

[Nick JD]

Check out the method to get 20L out of a 19L pot. You should be able to get 50L out of a keggle.

 

[rotten]

I work on having 38 ltr cooled wort into fermentor and consistently get 40 ltr, even allowing for 2-3 ltrs trub loss etc. My keg has about 48 ltrs after sparge, just watch it as you near the boil and turn the heat down accordingly and you won't have a boil over. I use an italian spiral and don't have any dramas.

It can be done

 

[stux]

I used to get two cubes out of my 50L pot doing BIAB.

Trick is to aim for two 17L (ie the 15L cubes) and go for 1.060, then you dilute with 10L or so in the fermenter to 1.048

I used to sparge in a 20L pot.

So do you mash, calculate it so that you fill the pot/keggle, right to the top. Grab 3L of strike water out with a jug so that you can back fill to the top. Mash away.

Pull the bag, dump it into the 20L pot, and fill to the top with sparge water, agitate and mix for about 10 minutes, then pull the bag, add the rest back to your boil pot and start the boil.

Any you can't fit in, pour in as you go.

You can use my CE Biab Calculator to work out how many L and how much grain to use based on your evaporation rate and sparge size etc.

Actually, if you know your evaporation rate, maximum L you can mash, and max L you can boil, let me know, and I'll set up the CE Calc to work out your brew day.

View attachment CE_BIABcalc_2012_04_02.xlsm.zip

 

[Stubbie]

I use a keggle for a genuine double batch quite often. There's more than one way to skin a cat but I find I can get away without a spray bottle or having to dilute in fermenters.

The most dangerous time is when first bringing the wort to the boil. Basically I fill the keggle, ensuring at least 75mm of headspace remains. I fly sparge and find the grain bed is well and truly sparged ( 2 Plato) before the keggle is typically 75 to 100mm short of full, so it's not like I'm sacrifising efficiency. FWIW my Promash calcs are based on 43 litres.

When bringing to the boil I have two best friends. One is a few grams of hops - the hop oils provide a reduction in surface tension and as a result a reduced build up of foam. The other friend is to watch the boil like a hawk - and I mean like a hawk - until a hot break forms, at which point the risk of a boil over reduces. I should add my kettle is gas fired, which provides good control response; I have no idea how an electric kettle would fare. Once a good hot break forms, I usually add a few litres of boiling water to bring up the volume. I also add a few litres of boiling or near boiling water about 5 min before flame out to compensate for evaporation and maximise the volume. At flame out the kettle lid goes on and commence chilling with an immersion chiller. I typically achieve 20 to 21 litres in each fermenter.

My explanation perhaps sounds a little more fiddly than what it actually is in practice. Until a 70L + kettle finds its way into my brewery the aforementioned approach works just fine - with a little care.

 

[mje1980]

As above, I do it often. I boil 44 litres, don't need a spray bottle, just watch it. Just before it,goes nuts (you,can tell!), I knock two of the 3 burners off completely. It's a heart pumping minute or so, but I rarely have a boilover. Once it calms down, its a strong simmer, and I can walk away

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

I do it too, my cubes only fit 16 ltrs so i go the high gravity approach and boil the wort down, just up my evap rate a bit, no need to extend the boil. At the start I have 47 ltrs and top up about 15 minutes in with the dunk sparge water that has been on the stove.

As others have pointed out just keep a close eye on it when it gets close to the boil, i just stir the break back into the wort but spraying would work too.

 

[lmccrone]

I'm no expert at this but I made a 48 L batch last weekend seemed to work, i can conform that making 40 L batches with this method has worked

I use a three vessel system made from three old kegs. I fill the kettle up with about 40 L of wort and put that on an open fire to boil and put the remaining wort in the hot liquor tank and fire the gas up underneath. I add my hop's to the kettle as normal and as the liquid in kettle evaporates i add the wort from the HLT till i finish by topping the kettle up to the brim and Bobs your uncle!

I used to just keep the reserve wort in an old fermenter and top up the kettle from that but keeping it boiling in the HLT saves me time.

 

[glenwal]

I'm no expert at this but I made a 48 L batch last weekend seemed to work, i can conform that making 40 L batches with this method has worked

I use a three vessel system made from three old kegs. I fill the kettle up with about 40 L of wort and put that on an open fire to boil and put the remaining wort in the hot liquor tank and fire the gas up underneath. I add my hop's to the kettle as normal and as the liquid in kettle evaporates i add the wort from the HLT till i finish by topping the kettle up to the brim and Bobs your uncle!

I used to just keep the reserve wort in an old fermenter and top up the kettle from that but keeping it boiling in the HLT saves me time.

If your going to boil the "reserve wort" in the HLT, why not just split the wort evenly between the kettle and HLT and do 2 seperate boils. Would save having to constantly top up the kettle, and would give you the flexiblity to use different hop schedules for the two halves of the batch.

 

[QldKev]

Since you didn't specify 3V or BIAB, I'll assume 3V?

Why not look at a back to back brew day. It does add 1.5hrs to the brew day, but you can brew 2 different batches.

If you are not sure by back to back brew day.
As you dump the last running from your mash tun into the kettle, have the HLT back up to strike temps for a second mash. Often you may need to have extra volume in the sparge water and top up with cold water to correct vols.
Once you have emptied the mash tun runnings, empty the grain and add the next batch of grain back to it.
Mash in for a second brew.
The idea is your mashing brew 2, as the kettle is boiling brew 1.
Your 60min boil plus whirlpool and drain takes about 1.5hrs, so for a 60min mash it gives you an extra 30mins to get your strike water correct and mashed in.

QldKev

 

[Robbo2234]

sorry should of mentioned BIAB.

and here is the recipe for 20 liters

3.6 lbs of British Maris Otter Pale Mal
300g 77L British Crystal Malt
350. British Torrified Wheat
120g British Amber Malt

30g Challenger : Boil 60 minutes
30grams. Kent Goldings : Add to boil for the final 15 minutes
30grams Fuggle : Add to boil for the final 1 minute

I am under the impression that I just need to double the recipe

I should mention too that I have a brown pump from the bulk buy I don't know if that can helps, It screws into my ball valve tap

 

[drsmurto]

I do double batches occasionally, mainly for other people and am due to brew a double batch of golden ale this weekend for a lads camping trip.

The way i do it is with a concentrated boil.

40L pre-boil which after 90 mins ends up being ~30L. Add 10L of boiling water to get back to 40L post-boil.

You can use beersmith to do this, simply tell it your pre-boil volume and post-boil volumes are the same.

I get a small drop in efficiency doing this (65%, down from 70%) due to sparging less and you need a small amount extra hops due to the higher SG of the boil.

 

[HoppingMad]

As above, I do it often. I boil 44 litres, don't need a spray bottle, just watch it. Just before it,goes nuts (you,can tell!), I knock two of the 3 burners off completely. It's a heart pumping minute or so, but I rarely have a boilover. Once it calms down, its a strong simmer, and I can walk away

+1. Exactly as above - done heaps of batches this way. Used to use a technique of 'boil/simmer/boil/simmer'. Never had a boil over, as long as your double batch you're aiming for at the end is around 40L to the fermenter/s.

A word of precaution - realise that the less vigorous your boil, the more prone your batch is to DMS and other bad flavours as boils drive off the nasties - so my advice would be if you're trying to create a flawless award winning pale lager batch where there's nowhere for flaws to hide - don't do a double, particularly at a simmer, but ales, browns and everything else you will have no issues with this method.

Happy brewing,

Hopper.

 

[Robbo2234]

thanks all,

I will give it a go I have a lid for mashing so I don't think I will lose a heap in evaporation then.

I remember reading that BIAB efficiency starts to pan off over Xkgs of grain. I cant seem to find that number.
if I just double the recipe it comes in at 8.788kgs in brew mate

 

[glenwal]

thanks all,

I will give it a go I have a lid for mashing so I don't think I will lose a heap in evaporation then.

I remember reading that BIAB efficiency starts to pan off over Xkgs of grain. I cant seem to find that number.
if I just double the recipe it comes in at 8.788kgs in brew mate

Its not about the amount of grain, its the ratio of grain to water. You will probably get a lower efficency (as mentioned a few times above) doing a double batch in your keggle because you can't fit the full volume of water + the grain in at once, but sparging can help make up the difference. Lookup the 20L stovetop thread or Maxi BIAB for more info.

 

[Nick JD]

No reason why you can't get 75% efficiency.

Just pretend you're making 25L of 1.090, with twice the IBUs.

At the same time, you'll also know how to make an IIPA, or a Belgian Strong. Two birds.