Gas Burner / Urn

[bignath]

Hi all,

for those that use gas for their boiler, i have found some three ring gas burners in a camping store that can be used with a standard regulator and your typical BBQ bottle.
Does any one have an idea of how much gas (very roughly) i would expect to go through for a typical 60 minute boil? I understand factors like wind and outside temperature, boiler dimensions etc all come in to play here but just a rough guide would be great.
Am i going to be using an entire 9kg bottle of gas, half a bottle, more than one bottle etc??
The boiler i would be using on this setup is a 30lt aluminium stockpot. Going for 19-20L in to primary.

any help would be great!

 

[matho]

Nath
I have a three ring burner with mp reg I use about 1kg of gas for a 90 min boil
I weighed not that long ago

cheers matho

 

[bignath]

Nath
I have a three ring burner with mp reg I use about 1kg of gas for a 90 min boil
I weighed not that long ago

cheers matho

Cool thanks Matho.

that sounds very efficient to me. Cost to refill 9kg around $20 i think? so therefore you're only using a couple of dollars of gas.

 

[WarmBeer]

Nath
I have a three ring burner with mp reg I use about 1kg of gas for a 90 min boil
I weighed not that long ago

cheers matho

Likewise, I use 1kg for a 60 min boil, using a three-ring

Want to upgrade to an adjustable reg soon, as it takes too long to get to boil.

 

[bignath]

Matho and Warmbeer,

do you guys only use gas in your brewing or do you use electric also?

I bought a cheap urn off ebay and it only lasted a few months before the element crapped itself. I am thinking about purchasing an urn from CB, but this morning went to a camping store and saw a 30lt aluminium pot and a three ring burner. I am wondering what setup i would be best with?

If you guys only use gas, are you happy with your setups? Do you think gas is better than electric or vice versa? I'm about to finalise my decision in the next few days and trying to figure out which way i will go...

Thanks for your help.

 

[Banshee]

Matho and Warmbeer,

do you guys only use gas in your brewing or do you use electric also?

I bought a cheap urn off ebay and it only lasted a few months before the element crapped itself. I am thinking about purchasing an urn from CB, but this morning went to a camping store and saw a 30lt aluminium pot and a three ring burner. I am wondering what setup i would be best with?

If you guys only use gas, are you happy with your setups? Do you think gas is better than electric or vice versa? I'm about to finalise my decision in the next few days and trying to figure out which way i will go...

Thanks for your help.

How many litres you want to heat? You can always make one yourself. Use the same principle aw the heat exchange units people uae for herms minus the coil add a tap. I use a food grade plastic bucket with an element and a tap adjoined to it. Mine is 20L but you could always use the bucket style fermenter.

 

[matho]

Nath i have an electric hlt and only use gas for the boil.
when i get my own place i will probably go all electric but at the moment im happy with my burner
electric is good because you can automate control easier so its good for hlt's where you want to get the water to a certain temp and hold it there.
the downside of gas is that you should really use it outside which can be a real bummer if the weather's bad.

cheer's matho

 

[Holla]

Matho and Warmbeer,

do you guys only use gas in your brewing or do you use electric also?

I bought a cheap urn off ebay and it only lasted a few months before the element crapped itself. I am thinking about purchasing an urn from CB, but this morning went to a camping store and saw a 30lt aluminium pot and a three ring burner. I am wondering what setup i would be best with?

If you guys only use gas, are you happy with your setups? Do you think gas is better than electric or vice versa? I'm about to finalise my decision in the next few days and trying to figure out which way i will go...

Thanks for your help.

GDay All,
LPG will give you 25.5 MJ of heating value per Litre of LPG(Commerical propane) consumed. for example my HLT burner has a mj rating of 110 mj per hour so i could burn (if running flat out) 4.3 litres of LPG in the hour. 110 mj divided by25.5 = 4.31 litres of propane. Have a look for the megajoule rating on the burner you are looking at buying and do the calculations

LPG (Commercial propane) has a weight (KG) capacity value of 1960 litres equal to 1000kg. So using the example above my HLT burner uses 4.31 litres of LPG per hour running flat out, so I would burn about 2 KG of LPG hour to run my burner flat out
4.31 divided by 1960 X 1000= 2.19kg

Your normal BBQ bottle is 8.5kg so divide 8.5 by 2.19 = 3.88 hours (running flat out)

Your local LPG salesman
Holla

 

[bignath]

GDay All,
LPG will give you 25.5 MJ of heating value per Litre of LPG(Commerical propane) consumed. for example my HLT burner has a mj rating of 110 mj per hour so i could burn (if running flat out) 4.3 litres of LPG in the hour. 110 mj divided by25.5 = 4.31 litres of propane. Have a look for the megajoule rating on the burner you are looking at buying and do the calculations

LPG (Commercial propane) has a weight (KG) capacity value of 1960 litres equal to 1000kg. So using the example above my HLT burner uses 4.31 litres of LPG per hour running flat out, so I would burn about 2 KG of LPG hour to run my burner flat out
4.31 divided by 1960 X 1000= 2.19kg

Your normal BBQ bottle is 8.5kg so divide 8.5 by 2.19 = 3.88 hours (running flat out)

Your local LPG salesman
Holla

thanks Holla.

found out the mj rating. It's no where near as high a number as yours. The three ring burner i am looking at is rated 31.5mj. Is this too weak to use as a boiler? I have no experience with using gas to boil large volumes so i have no idea if i am wasting my time with this particular item. It's made by Primus. Not sure if they are any good for brewing.
Based on your calculations, this burner will get me 13.5 hours of use from 9kg bottle (8.5 capacity?)
If it's too weak, what sort of mj rating should i be aiming for?

cheers,

Nath

 

[Banshee]

I know that LPG is very compessable therefor bottle should not be indoors. Doesn't stop me, the gas is heavier than air and like inside natural gas heaters you must by law have a wall vent. I have my door slightly ajar and place my cylinder close by so it is vented. I could also place the bottle outside and have the hose running threw the door. I believe gas or steam is the best way to boil your kettle.

 

[Holla]

I know that LPG is very compessable therefor bottle should not be indoors. Doesn't stop me, the gas is heavier than air and like inside natural gas heaters you must by law have a wall vent. I have my door slightly ajar and place my cylinder close by so it is vented. I could also place the bottle outside and have the hose running threw the door. I believe gas or steam is the best way to boil your kettle.

You would be crazy/stupid to use a lpgburner inside a enclosed space, carbon monoxide is produced during the burning process and will creep up on you and could end your brewing days for good.

31 mj sounds weak to me, you will spend all you time(and LPG) trying to get you water upto 60-75 degree mark for mashing.
I will find out the make and modle of my burner and post it up.
Cheers
Holla

 

[felten]

You don't want to use your LPG in your house, I had a friend in America who's gas heating line sprung a leak and almost killed himself and his young son. Luckily he had a CO alarm in his house and got outside, and to the hospital before any permanent damage occurred.

CO is colorless and odorless.

 

[WarmBeer]

Matho and Warmbeer,

do you guys only use gas in your brewing or do you use electric also?

I bought a cheap urn off ebay and it only lasted a few months before the element crapped itself. I am thinking about purchasing an urn from CB, but this morning went to a camping store and saw a 30lt aluminium pot and a three ring burner. I am wondering what setup i would be best with?

If you guys only use gas, are you happy with your setups? Do you think gas is better than electric or vice versa? I'm about to finalise my decision in the next few days and trying to figure out which way i will go...

Thanks for your help.

Up to my last brew, I was gas only. Recently got an immersion element, but have just been using in unison with the 3-ring to speed up my time from getting the sweet wort into the pot up to boil temperature. Took it from about 40 mins down to 10 mins.

Ideally I would get an italian spiral burner and adjustable regulator, but will need to save up my pennies a bit first.

 

[Banshee]

You would be crazy/stupid to use a lpgburner inside a enclosed space, carbon monoxide is produced during the burning process and will creep up on you and could end your brewing days for good.

So all those people out there that have caravans and have lpg cookers (like 99%) in the kitckens are all crazy/stupid. That's alot of people and why does the law aloow them to be sold?

 

[Banshee]

You don't want to use your LPG in your house, I had a friend in America who's gas heating line sprung a leak and almost killed himself and his young son. Luckily he had a CO alarm in his house and got outside, and to the hospital before any permanent damage occurred.

CO is colorless and odorless.

Since when is LPG CO?
Two different gases.
If it was a low level O2 sensor then it would alarm.

 

[Holla]

So all those people out there that have caravans and have lpg cookers (like 99%) in the kitckens are all crazy/stupid. That's alot of people and why does the law aloow them to be sold?

Its all got to do with the level of solid fuel(LPG) thats burnt and converted to carbon monoxide in an hour. e.g. a caravan fridge if running 100% on LPG will burn 12-15grams of LPG per hour thats .006 -.007 a litre of LPG compared to a mega jet or 3 ring burner that can burn about 1.5-2.5 kilograms or 3.5-4litres an hour

15 grams VS 2 kilograms

This sadly happened not long ago
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/...x-1225883976675

If you are set on brewing using a burner in a shed at least I would buy a carbon monoxide (CO) detector

Holla.

 

[Banshee]

Its all got to do with the level of solid fuel(LPG) thats burnt and converted to carbon monoxide in an hour. e.g. a caravan fridge if running 100% on LPG will burn 12-15grams of LPG per hour thats .006 -.007 a litre of LPG compared to a mega jet or 3 ring burner that can burn about 1.5-2.5 kilograms or 3.5-4litres an hour

15 grams VS 2 kilograms

This sadly happened not long ago
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/...x-1225883976675

If you are set on brewing using a burner in a shed at least I would buy a carbon monoxide (CO) detector

Holla.

In previous reply you only said LPG burner. That is a generalization. You should have been more specific, I only use the second smallest ring on my 4 ring burner to get a good rolling boil in a very large room. Probably less toxins would build up in that room compared to a caravan even if it is burning for some time.
I might invest in a canary

 

[felten]

Since when is LPG CO?
Two different gases.
If it was a low level O2 sensor then it would alarm.

I may have got it wrong, it does sound more like the vent flue sprung a leak, not the gas line itself. Either way he said he walked past his son's crib on the way to check the alarm and on the way back his son was covered in his dinner, then he started to puke himself and felt like he was going to die, so not a fun outcome.

I shouldn't have said you DONT want to do it, but just provide adequate ventilation and be careful

 

[Zwickel]

LPG doesnt produce any CO!

LPG burnes to CO2 and water only.

\mathrm{C_3H_8 + 5\ O_2 \longrightarrow 3\ CO_2 + 4\ H_2O}

So, no fear using LPG even inside the house!

Cheers :icon_cheers:



ahem.......http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_petroleum_gas

 

[felten]

what about this part on the propane page?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane#Prope...s_and_reactions