Force Carbing Kegs "the No Shake Method"

[SJW]

Well I wont copyright the title just yet but in an effort to save my back I am filling kegs while they are in the freezer so I am unable to get a good shake on them, AKA Ross method. So has anyone just hit a full keg of chilled beer, through the gas IN post, at 300kpa and just left it? I will be able to answer my own question in a day or so as thats what I have just done. My theory is that there must be an initial pressure that you can hit a keg with and NOT vent the keg and just let the forced co2 be absorbed into the beer. Even if it takes 24 hours to soak in. Or would I need to keep topping up the pressure to 300kpa as it get absorbed into the beer.
If anyone has any advice or has tried this method let me know otherwise in a day or so I will let you know my results.

Steve

 

[oldbugman]

Taken from the country brewer website.

CARBONATING:
The absorption of the CO2 into your beer can depend on many things, most particularly the temperature of the beer, the pressure at which it is applied and the length of time pressure is applied.
The CO2 will be absorbed at a faster rate when the beer is cold (the beer will not absorb gas at room temperature) so if you apply 31 psi (220kpa) continually for two days under normal refrigeration temperature your beer should be ready to try.
We have found that two days at this pressure gives the correct carbonation. Depending on personal taste you may like more or less so there is some trial and error to find what is best for you. eg. For an English type Bitter you may prefer a lower rate of carbonation but on the other hand you may be making a German Weizen which would be more effervescent so again the rate of carbonation is up to you.

 

[domonsura]

Works fine. Personally at 4 deg C, I find that 300kPa will carbonate a keg enough to drink it in roughly a day to a day and a half. Experiment a bit to get your desired carbonation level.

 

[sah]

SJW, I used to do this all the time and sometimes still do. However, the regulator I use at the moment measures in litres / minute instead of pressure. So all I can tell you is I use about 35 lpm for 2 48 hours at about 5C.

regards,
Scott

 

[QldKev]

I used to do all my gassing at 3 bar (300kpa) for 30hrs at fridge temperature. No shake involved; this was the method my LHS told me.

I now just put them in the fridge at serving pressure for a week. This saves playing the the gas reg all the time. Set at just under 1 bar (my serving pressure) and forget it.

QldKev

 

[fifteenbeerslater]

SJW,
This is the method i have been usung for the last few years:
Chill the keg, add full gas and disconnect gas,12 hours later-same again. Do this 3 or 4 times,perfect carbonation and no shaking and no fear of loosing gas from your gas bottle.
Good luck,
15BL

 

[Gulf Brewery]

If you don't want to leave the gas connected all the time because you think it may leak, leave a bit more head space so that you can get a reasonable amount of CO2 in there. It will absorb reasonably quickly and you just keep on topping up the CO2 pressure until you reach the carbonation level you want.

Cheers
Pedro

 

[bonj]

Or you could just connect the keg at serving pressure. It'll be carbonated in about a week. You do have to be sure there aren't any leaks, though.

 

[oldbugman]

Or you could just connect the keg at serving pressure. It'll be carbonated in about a week. You do have to be sure there aren't any leaks, though.

But this is something everyone should be checking/fixing anyway. not just the people leaving the gas on.

 

[Screwtop]

I use the so named "Ross" method of forced carbing when I need to put a keg of beer on tap from the CCing fridge and be able to pour from it within a few hours. Sometimes I use the so named "Winkle" method of force carbing a keg when I know a replacement will be needed in a few days time.

Lets not start any wanking mass-debate over the names given to the methods as they are only names I've adopted for a method of force carbing. Winkle was the one who described his method to me of force carbing by applying multiple high pressure shots of gas to a keg in the CCing fridge - the same as described by Pedro above.

If the level is getting low in a keg in the serving fridge, choosing a keg that has had adequate time in the CCing fridge I connect the gas and apply 300KPA until the gas equalises (about 15 sec. when the sound of gas passing through the reg ceases), disconnect and leave 24 hrs. Next day attach the gas line to the keg and repeat, on the third day connect the gas to the keg and check the resting pressure, if the gas has been absorbed and there is little/no pressure showing, then apply 300 KPA again as before. Usually after 3 days or so the guage will show resting pressure in the keg, if it's lower than 100 KPA then apply gas at 150 KPA to allow for a little absorbtion, and leave it to carbonate further. If the guage shows 100 KPA or more I use a picnic tap to pour a test sample, if it's sufficiently carbonated then it's ready to go on tap and can sit and wait for a space in the serving fridge. Sometimes a beer might need a few top ups at 150 KPA, and I might give it two or more bursts of 150 KPA over 24 hours. What I'm aiming to end up with is a keg with resting pressure of 100 KPA ready for the serving fridge. By using 150 KPA once the pressure starts to show in the keg there's less chance of overcarbonating the beer.

Hope this helps,

Screwy

Disclaimer: "Ross" and "Winkle" methods are simply terms used by me to represent two different methods of forced carbonation which I use for two different applications.

 

[SJW]

If the level is getting low in a keg in the serving fridge, choosing a keg that has had adequate time in the CCing fridge I connect the gas and apply 300KPA until the gas equalises (about 15 sec. when the sound of gas passing through the reg ceases), disconnect and leave 24 hrs. Next day attach the gas line to the keg and repeat, on the third day connect the gas to the keg and check the resting pressure, if the gas has been absorbed and there is little/no pressure showing, then apply 300 KPA again as before. Usually after 3 days or so the guage will show resting pressure in the keg, if it's lower than 100 KPA then apply gas at 150 KPA to allow for a little absorbtion, and leave it to carbonate further. If the guage shows 100 KPA or more I use a picnic tap to pour a test sample, if it's sufficiently carbonated then it's ready to go on tap and can sit and wait for a space in the serving fridge. Sometimes a beer might need a few top ups at 150 KPA, and I might give it two or more bursts of 150 KPA over 24 hours. What I'm aiming to end up with is a keg with resting pressure of 100 KPA ready for the serving fridge. By using 150 KPA once the pressure starts to show in the keg there's less chance of overcarbonating the beer.

Hope this helps,

Screwy

That sounds like a plan and it pretty much what I am doing. I will have to take a photo of my new setup but I have s/s tee then a ball valve running into the freezer that I can shut off outside the freezer and use another disconnect to do force carbing so I dont have to take the gas off on four kegs. I know its not necessary but for a few extra bucks its handy, and I had the whole setup bar the kegs and reg in the pool to check for leaks.
I dont think it's a case of whose method is the best or what that method is called or who it's named after it's more about having an understanding of all methods so u can use the best one for you.

Steve

 

[Screwtop]

I dont think it's a case of whose method is the best or what that method is called or who it's named after it's more about having an understanding of all methods so u can use the best one for you.

Steve

Amen to that :super:

 

[sanders4_]

I've had much success with the ross method, but i recently picked up the book brewing classic styles and it lists the desired carbonation level for different brews. It that lists the volumes of CO2 for a style of beer, with a table in the back that tells you what pressure to set your reg for, at a given beer temperature.
For example, in an American Pale Ale, 2 - 2.5 volumes of CO2 is desired. With beer temp of 4'C, a pressure of 70 kPa (10 psi) is needed to force 2.3 volumes of CO2 into the brew. This method is non-shake essentially, although shaking would help it along.
The ross method is quick and effective, but i have no idea how many volumes it gives and how to tweak it. I'm keen to follow the books recommendations for carbonations for a while and give the slower more accurate method a go for the next few brews.

 

[Screwtop]

I've had much success with the ross method, but i recently picked up the book brewing classic styles and it lists the desired carbonation level for different brews. It has a table that lists the volumes of CO2 for that style of beer, with a table in the back that tells you what pressure to set at for a given temperature of the beer. For example, American Pale Ale 2 - 2.5 volumes of CO2 is desired. With beer at 4'C, a pressure of 70 kPa (10 psi) is needed to force 2.3 volumes of CO2 into the brew. This method is non-shake essentially, although shaking would help it along.
The ross method is quick and effective, but i have no idea what carbonation level it gives and how to tweak it. I'm keen to follow the books recommendations and give the slower more accurate method a go for the next few brews.

Sanders, how can you know what level of carbonation the method will produce given your kit, very difficult. Carb, test and adjust to a level that you like.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[newguy]

I've tried many different methods of force carbonating my kegs. When I first got my kegging setup I didn't have a serving fridge or a freezer with a temperature controller. I did have a food freezer, though. I'd force carbonate at room temperature (I had to extrapolate from the temperature/pressure CO2 charts) by hooking up the gas at the proper pressure for the carbonation level I wanted, and shake the hell out of the keg until I could no longer hear gas rushing. The keg was upright. Back in those days, pouring a beer took planning as I'd have to put the keg in the freezer to chill for an hour or two. Life wasn't good.

Once I got a freezer for my beer (& temperature control unit), I'd put the keg into the freezer overnight to chill to a reasonable temperature, then force carbonate using the shake method. Life was better.

Now that I have a commercial fridge for my kegs, I tend to just hook up the gas and leave it for a week. Much less strenuous than shaking the hell out of a keg, but it takes a long time. I've recently tried something new. It involves shaking the keg with the gas hooked up, but I invert the keg. It takes much less time to carbonate, but holding a keg upside down on my knee starts to hurt when I get to the 2nd keg (I do 10 gal batches).

The only downside to having a proper serving fridge with a CO2 manifold is that every beer gets the same carbonation. I can't tailor the carbonation of each beer, but that's a minor problem.

 

[bonj]

When I use the "Ross method", I don't use the liquid post like most recommend, I just use the gas post, and lay the keg on its side, with the gas post down. A gentle rock back and forth and you can hear the co2 bubbling through the beer. No need to have big muscles for that method.

 

[sanders4_]

Sanders, how can you know what level of carbonation the method will produce given your kit, very difficult. Carb, test and adjust to a level that you like.

Cheers,

Screwy

The carbonation chart in Palmer and Zamil's book was worked out using Boyle's Law.

Colder temperatures allow more CO2 to dissolve into beer, higher pressures of CO2 allow more CO2 to dissolve into beer. If you control the temperature, and the pressure of CO2, you control the equilibrium volume of CO2 that will dissolve into the the beer. The system won't move from equilibrium volume because its the lowest energy state for a given temp and pressure. Wiki has a brief description on Boyle's law.

So all i need in my kit is a temperature controlled fridge and a CO2 reg.
Here is a link of a carbonation chart similar to the one in Palmer and Zamil's book link, but the temp is in 'Fahrenheit.

Like Newguy said, the downside is time, it takes a while to carb up, upwards of a week.

Sanders

 

[tangent]

that's where if you have enough kegs of beer, it doesn't matter if it takes a week, and generally I find 2 weeks in the keg at 0-1C makes a world of difference in the smoothness of the beer.

 

[Screwtop]

The carbonation chart in Palmer and Zamil's book was worked out using Boyle's Law.

Colder temperatures allow more CO2 to dissolve into beer, higher pressures of CO2 allow more CO2 to dissolve into beer. If you control the temperature, and the pressure of CO2, you control the equilibrium volume of CO2 that will dissolve into the the beer. The system won't move from equilibrium volume because its the lowest energy state for a given temp and pressure. Wiki has a brief description on Boyle's law.

So all i need in my kit is a temperature controlled fridge and a CO2 reg.
Here is a link of a carbonation chart similar to the one in Palmer and Zamil's book link, but the temp is in 'Fahrenheit.

Like Newguy said, the downside is time, it takes a while to carb up, upwards of a week.

Sanders

As a new kegger, tried all of the science, charts etc. Now I carb to a level I like and what suits the particular brew, all things are never the same, sure you can use temps and charts, and some beers will require more and some less. Not saying you shouldn't take the scientific approach and use the charts etc, something everone needs to do for experience.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[SJW]

So how many corneys do u guys get out of a Large size type "D" gas bottle? I hit my Weizen up again to 300kpa and noticed the other guage went down a bit and when I felt it it was a lot lighter and I have onlt dispenced 4 kegs and primed up 3. I thought I red somewhere u can get 20 kegs out of a type "d" bottle.

Steve