Carlsberg - 2008 Victorian Beer Of The Year?

[glennheinzel]

Foster's says locally-made Carlsberg will taste the same
Australian Financial News

Foster's Group is about to begin brewing Carlsberg beer in Australia and promises the taste of the Danish drop won't change.

Foster's and Copenhagen-based Carlsberg Breweries have signed a long-term deal allowing the maker of one of the country's best known, self-named beers to brew and sell the flagship Carlsberg, Carlsberg Elephant and Tuborg brands.

International premium beer brands are the fastest growing segment of the Australian beer market as consumers "upgrade" their tastes.

Foster's spokesman Troy Hey said there would be no difference in the taste of the locally-brewed Carlsberg, but it would be fresher.

"The great thing is that it's fresher if you're getting it out of an Australian brewery, and it allows Australian consumers to get it at better prices," Mr Hey said.

"We do everything to match the recipe, the yeasts, we use exactly the same methods, so basically the beer should be identical."

Carlsberg has quality control and testing arrangements with its brewing partners and the local brew will undergo continuous audits to ensure it meets required standards.

Foster's already brews Belgian beer Stella Artois and other foreign brands in Australia, and allows its Foster's Lager beer brand to be brewed under licence around the world.

"The hardest thing we have to match with Foster's is the water," Mr Hey said.

"The global standard for Foster's is Melbourne water, and the same thing applies when we brew other beers.

"We've got to match the water, the hops, the malts, yeasts - the yeasts are licensed so we do them under an agreement - but everything else is exactly to recipe."

For example, when Foster's beer is made in London the water is modified to taste like Melbourne water.

In the case of foreign beers made under license in Australia, mineral levels in the water are altered to match the water in the country of origin.

Carlsberg Breweries licenses production of its brands to nearly 100 breweries around the world.

Carlsberg has a small presence in Australia, with annual sales of under 300,000 cases.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

It's not that long ago that the sort of mechanical detail of brewing would not be found in such an article in such a rag. I was impressed to see them talking about water types.

... and now we know why the megabreweries filter the yeast out of their beer - to protect some other megabrewery's yeast property!

 

[griffo17]

I have to agree with Gerard M.

I was in Copenhagen last last year and the Carlsberg self guided tour was one of the best I've been to. The beer there is bloody good too.
Speights in Dunedin was really good and they let me drink pretty much as much as I wanted at the end.

These beers made under license are a little cheaper then the imported version, you're not trying if you can't find a slab of Heineken for $40. Which tastes supurb in Holland but average everywhere else it's brewed in Europe (especially the UK, where pretty much all beer brewed locally is crap).

Stella is one of cheapest and nastiest beers in the UK, 5 quid for 6 x 440ml cans at the local offie (corner shop that sells booze) and makes you crook in the guts the next day too.

Keep searching people, every now and then we all find imported gems at the local bottlo.
Don't let the secret out!

cheers (& beers)

Griffo

 

[Thirsty Boy]

So you're expecting an improvement in Carlsberg? You're looking forward to this?

Not really.

I quite like Carlsberg the way it is, so there is a fair chance that I will find any change to be negative. But the differences in the Fosters brewed drop might actually make it nicer. It probably wont, but it might.

I will taste with an open mind and see what I actually think about it. If its possible, I will do a triangle test with the old and the new beer to see if I can even tell them apart. I have one in the fridge ATM, so I will save it. Mind you, the stuff has been being brewed in Melbourne by Independent Brewers for a fair while now anyway.... and I'm fairly certain it came from New Zealand before that, so really this whole argument is effectivly pointless.

And from my perspective, yes, I am lookig forward to it. People I actually know will be getting an increase in their level of job security and maybe a few extra dollars worth of overtime.

Of course if the changes actually do make the beer worse, then I will be less happy and Carlsberg will go down my beer pecking order a couple of notches. I buy the occasional carton of the stuff, so that will piss me off.

 

[PostModern]

I keep an open mind, too. All of the Carlsberg I've bought so far has been thru Theo's (when it was still Theo's) and I always checked the labels for "Brewed in Denmark". Can't say I've tried the Independent Brewer's version.

Anyway, it's neither here nor there lately as I have enough beer in stock recently and the permanent loan of my brother's growler bottle, so I'll be bringing "my own" to most parties for the foreseeable future.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I keep an open mind, too. All of the Carlsberg I've bought so far has been thru Theo's (when it was still Theo's) and I always checked the labels for "Brewed in Denmark". Can't say I've tried the Independent Brewer's version.

Anyway, it's neither here nor there lately as I have enough beer in stock recently and the permanent loan of my brother's growler bottle, so I'll be bringing "my own" to most parties for the foreseeable future.

Is that Theos Fine Food ?? Because I think they still operate down here. And if they are still bringing in genuine Euro examples. Because I dont actually like the Idependent Brewers version of Carlsberg all that much (which is why Foster is somewhat likely to make it better IMHO) and would rather get the euro stuff till I can try the new version, and maybe after too.

TB

 

[PostModern]

It was Theo's Liquor. A subsidiary of the food place in Sydney. They sold the chain to *yawn* Liquor Land *yawn* who have naturally removed most of the shelving, all of the Belgian beers and most of the vintage wine stocks at what used to be Theo's Liquor at Bulli. I rarely walk thru their doors any more as a result. In the same way big brewers are dumbing down beer, Liquor Land and other big liquor chains are dumbing down selection. It saddens my heart, it does. Apologies for the further OT.

 

[glennheinzel]

Hall & Woodhouse brewery in the UK (brewer of Badgers beers) also brew Hofbrau under license. The brewed under license stuff makes its way into kegs, however the bottled beer is still imported from Germany.

Perhaps our locally made "foreign" beers are kegged whilst the bottled beer is still imported?

Any one got a bottle of Stella etc handy?

 

[Hutch]

Hall & Woodhouse brewery in the UK (brewer of Badgers beers) also brew Hofbrau under license. The brewed under license stuff makes its way into kegs, however the bottled beer is still imported from Germany.

Perhaps our locally made "foreign" beers are kegged whilst the bottled beer is still imported?

Any one got a bottle of Stella etc handy?

In the past I've bought both the imported and the locally produced Stella in bottles, at the same ****** price! It is an absolute disgrace, as there is a distinct difference in flavour. The finnesse of the hops is where it really shows (as the local drop is most likely brewed using various NZ clones of European hops). In fact I can't help but cinically imagine they use Pride of Rindwood for bittering <_<

So, yes you can buy both in bottles, but you have to be pretty lucky to score the imported stuff at the bottle'o.

Rant over.

 

[Weizguy]

Come on now... I agree with everything you say about it being misleading and that the beers taste completely different (tried Stella lately? It's just like Carlton Draught!) But does it really matter if Carlsberg/Becks/Stella/Tuborg/Asahi/Fosters is brewed under contract? The reason they do it is that 99% of their customers can't tell/don't care about the difference. And now punters can buy "Tuborg" for $40 a slab! It's win-win as far as the majority are concerned.

When it starts happening with good beers then I'll get pissed off. But of course it won't - any brewery that cares enough to brew good beer wouldn't bother with something like this.
:beer:

Hmmm, unless it's JS, and they're owned by L-N?

Seth's 2 cents

 

[Thirsty Boy]

oops, I repeated scuttlebutt pre-maturely.

Looks like Carlsberg might be in the running for 2008 Vic beer of the year after all. From a more reliable source , so I might even be right this time.

Also, just a thought to add to the general debate about brewing under liscence.

Did anyone who takes such objection to locally brewed Stella and indeed Stella in general, happen to look at some of the people who were judges at the AIBA ?? As well as the usual suspects from LN and Fosters there were guys who obviously only like stock standard megaswill from breweries like James Squire, Holgate, Mountain Goat, Coopers, Moorilla, Hargraves Hill.....

No wonder a **** locally produced knock off beer like Stella did well. What the hell would guys like that know about good beer?

 

[Hutch]

Did anyone who takes such objection to locally brewed Stella and indeed Stella in general, happen to look at some of the people who were judges at the AIBA ?? As well as the usual suspects from LN and Fosters there were guys who obviously only like stock standard megaswill from breweries like James Squire, Holgate, Mountain Goat, Coopers, Moorilla, Hargraves Hill.....

No wonder a **** locally produced knock off beer like Stella did well. What the hell would guys like that know about good beer?

I'm far from convinced that this award qualifies this as superior to ALL other offerings in Victoria.
The main judges list includes no less than 10 from Lion Nathan/Fosters group, and only 1 from a relatively new micro (Hargreaves Hill). The Chief Judge was formerly head brewer at CUB, and the small microbrewery representation are "associate judges", whatever that means.

I agree that Stella brewed here is actually better than most Aussie beers - hey, at least it's not as bad as Stella brewed in the UK - "wife-beater"

...My point is simply that we're paying a premium price for a rip-off, and it's very sad to see the same thing is going to happen to Carlsberg beers. Where will it end?


my 2c.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I'm far from convinced that this award qualifies this as superior to ALL other offerings in Victoria.
The main judges list includes no less than 10 from Lion Nathan/Fosters group, and only 1 from a relatively new micro (Hargreaves Hill). The Chief Judge was formerly head brewer at CUB, and the small microbrewery representation are "associate judges", whatever that means.

I agree that Stella brewed here is actually better than most Aussie beers - hey, at least it's not as bad as Stella brewed in the UK - "wife-beater"

...My point is simply that we're paying a premium price for a rip-off, and it's very sad to see the same thing is going to happen to Carlsberg beers. Where will it end?
my 2c.

I get your point but...

Last time I looked Little Creatures was a fairly well respected Micro brewery.... Also on the main judging panel were Boags x 2, Coopers x 2, Oxford brewing Co, Blue Tounge, Boston Beer Co (Sam Adams), Aus Independent Brewers AND of the LN/Fosters guys 2 were from either Matlida Bay or James Squire

So the "not" Mega Brewers outnumbered the Megas significantly on the main panel as well as on the associate panel.

Anyway, I agree, IMHO its not the best beer produced in Victoria. Just saying it isn't **** just because its a locally brewed euro beer, nor was it **** as a Euro produced euro beer. Its actually pretty damn good beer. Maybe not the best, but pretty damn good.

BTW, the original comment wasn't directed specifically at any particular post, sorry if it looked like I was taking an individual shot at you.

Thirsty

 

[Hutch]

He he - We both seem to have nothing better to do in the wee hours than haggle over a list of beer judges!
...curse this forum - SO many hours of lost sleep!!!

Cheers Thirsty.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

He he - We both seem to have nothing better to do in the wee hours than haggle over a list of beer judges!
...curse this forum - SO many hours of lost sleep!!!

Cheers Thirsty.

I made myself late for work with that last post.... beer has compleely taken over my life

damn B)

 

[Malnourished]

Just to fan the flames on some of this 'brewed under contract' stuff, check this out. At the wholesale level, imported Stella costs >25% less than CUB-brewed Stella! WTF?

And PostModern, it turns out Pilsner Urquell is also brewed in Poland. For sale in Poland only apparently.

 

[glennheinzel]

For big business, its all about maximising profits by charging the premium that clients expect to pay.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Just to fan the flames on some of this 'brewed under contract' stuff, check this out. At the wholesale level, imported Stella costs >25% less than CUB-brewed Stella! WTF?

And PostModern, it turns out Pilsner Urquell is also brewed in Poland. For sale in Poland only apparently.

What else would you do with a duopoly but exploit it??

There is the freshness thing to consider... and excise, but on the whole, a 25% difference does seem to be a lot.

But... it seems that people think that Fosters produces Stella for the same price that they produce your VB etc. Well, thats well away from the truth. It might not be (probably isn't) the major reason for Stella's price point, but Stella does take a LOT more time, effort and resources to brew than do the other locally brewed beers.

Like I said, I'm not saying that justifies the actual price, but it certainly justifies it being at the high end of the fosters price bracket.

Thirsty

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

What else would you do with a duopoly but exploit it??

There is the freshness thing to consider... and excise, but on the whole, a 25% difference does seem to be a lot.

But... it seems that people think that Fosters produces Stella for the same price that they produce your VB etc. Well, thats well away from the truth. It might not be (probably isn't) the major reason for Stella's price point, but Stella does take a LOT more time, effort and resources to brew than do the other locally brewed beers.

Like I said, I'm not saying that justifies the actual price, but it certainly justifies it being at the high end of the fosters price bracket.

Thirsty

I think that the world has progressed well past the point where anything costs what it 'should' or what the creator paid plus X% (unless you live in the distribution chain and don't actually add any value but for trucking ). In the Australian market economy, Stella is valued more highly than VB by the people who buy it, so it costs more. Doesn't actually matter what the relative difference in production costs are. The beautiful people want to drink Stella while promenading in Chapel Street and will pay a premium to do so - you'd be a short-lived business manager to not charge that premium.

Sorry. That's the way things are. As home/craft brewers, we should consider ourselves lucky that we can experience many more flavours at a different price point, rather than moan about a fundamental element of the society we live in.

</RANT>