Baking Bottles

[Pennywise]

After painfully washing and sanitising 30 longnecks last night after a ***** day at work, this is really getting me interested. The points made so far have pretty much got me on the wagon. Just one question though, would heating them in the oven every time you need to sanitise cause the bottle to have a shorter shelf life due to the slight stress on the glass(even if you do the slow heat up)?

 

[seravitae]

Nice going Caleb! Not using sterilizers is a bonus for those concerned about quality and residues.

 

[rich_lamb]

"You're a god damned genius Gump!"

I think I'll get into this bottle baking in order to remove the dread of bottling day, and reduce my water and chemical use at the same time. Thanks for the tip fellas!

Only problem is my crapulent oven has been steadily losing functions for the last couple of years; the fan doesn't work and baking is not that uniform. SWMBO will be happy when I insist on an upgrade...

I do like it when Thirsty says, "Trust me ... everything is dead". Has a nice ring to it.

 

[HoppingMad]

Another way I've read to bake bottles (which I've read US Homebrewers doing with success) is to use an autoclave. They're used to sterilise hospital equipment (which probably opens up a can of worms in terms of how safe it would be if you get one second hand). Have also seen some amazing rigs set up in washing machines with copper lines that the bottles can sit over. Then you just stack the bottles in and press a button.

Dunno where you'd get an autoclave, and a copper rig inside a dishwasher is quite a project, but two more options.

Hopper.

 

[hoppinmad]

Another thing I've done in the past to sterilise bottles is by using the steam wand on my expresso machine. The steam coming out of there is obviously at an extremely high temp and produced under high pressure so I am confident it would sterilise also.

Problem is, it is a bit more labour intensive and can get risky if you get steam on your hands.

Is good for sterilising things like measuring cylinders, thermometers, etc, also

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

Anyone baked bottles with the labels still on?

I've just scored a cache of coopers bottles, and am intending to do the bake/foil trick, but don't want to have to try to peel off hundreds of sticky labels.

I figure if I foil the tops before baking any residue from com busting glue/labels will be kept out of the bottles. Any other opinions?

 

[hoppinmad]

Anyone baked bottles with the labels still on?

I've just scored a cache of coopers bottles, and am intending to do the bake/foil trick, but don't want to have to try to peel off hundreds of sticky labels.

I figure if I foil the tops before baking any residue from com busting glue/labels will be kept out of the bottles. Any other opinions?

Well I imagine you'd get a pretty stinky kitchen with the glue being baked and the labels would probably singe too. Not sure if it would leave any gluey flavour in the bottle. Maybe try one and see.

As far as getting the labels off... I don't find it that hard. If you soak them over night in hot water, next morning they usually just slide straight off. Some glue residue remains but it comes off with a wipe of a cloth

 

[KGB]

Just one question though, would heating them in the oven every time you need to sanitise cause the bottle to have a shorter shelf life due to the slight stress on the glass(even if you do the slow heat up)?

I doubt it, then most important part is the slow cool down. Cool them too fast and they'll either crack instantly or become brittle and fragile.

 

[TidalPete]

Another way I've read to bake bottles (which I've read US Homebrewers doing with success) is to use an autoclave.
Hopper.

If you can afford an autoclave you can afford to keg & thus have no real need for bottles. h34r:
I keg & bottle the remaining few litres when my "Blend" keg is full & appreciate this thread for the info on baking my bottles over my practise of putting them in the dishwasher.

Not sure why you need to use Alfoil caps though? If the plastic sheathing inside the caps melts in the oven why not just sterilise them wth boiling water & allow to dry? Then seal the bottles.

TP

 

[KGB]

Here's a question: Anyone baked a grolsch swingtop? (Rubber seal removed)

I'm a kegger but have plenty of these bottles and usually bottle a couple at the end of each brew.

 

[seravitae]

Oh, with regards to earlier comments about sterilization of bottles using autoclaves, I autoclave equipment in a food pressure cooker foor 45 minutes. These are pretty cheap. To sterilize glass/glassware you need a significant amount of time for total sterilization. In the largest of pressure cookers you could probably only fit about 10 375ml bottles, forget about longnecks/tallies. For the average joe bloggs an oven is cheaper and much larger alternative. However for those doing culture work (yeast slants and whatnot) a pressure cooker is a pretty good idea.

 

[Nick JD]

Here's the thing - I don't sterilize bottles. Just hot tap water. But I make sure they are clean and dry.

Bacteria need a bio-film to breed to numbers significant enough to not be killed by the active yeast culture and 5% alcohol solution poured on top of them.

In twenty years of brewing I've had about five bottles that were "off". I'm almost positive that this was due to the bottles not being clean. Sterilizing is effectively useless if there's any organic matter in the bottle - if there isn't it's not necessary.

Q. Are brand new bottles in the megaswill factories sterilized?

 

[caleb]

Q. Are brand new bottles in the megaswill factories sterilized?

Probably done in one hit with the beer when they pasteurize it... <_<

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Here's the thing - I don't sterilize bottles. Just hot tap water. But I make sure they are clean and dry.

Bacteria need a bio-film to breed to numbers significant enough to not be killed by the active yeast culture and 5% alcohol solution poured on top of them.

In twenty years of brewing I've had about five bottles that were "off". I'm almost positive that this was due to the bottles not being clean. Sterilizing is effectively useless if there's any organic matter in the bottle - if there isn't it's not necessary.

Q. Are brand new bottles in the megaswill factories sterilized?

steam sterilized at the filling point for beers that aren't going to be post fill pasteurized.

TP - the alfoil caps before you bake em, means that nothing from the oven can get in and means that the inside of the bottles are sterile and have no exposure at all to potential infection until you pull off the foil and fill with beer - I have bottles in my cupboard that I sterilized 2 years ago and would use tomorrow without hesitating. Baking is a pain in the bum f you are doing it "on the day" so to speak, it just takes too long. Its one of those things where you do it in small batches as you empty the bottles... then on bottling day... there is no sanitising step at all. Chuck your lids in a bowl of iodophor, pull off the foil, fill, pull out a cap and whack it on.

 

[HoppingMad]

If you can afford an autoclave you can afford to keg & thus have no real need for bottles. h34r:

TP

Excellent Pete! Was wondering when someone was going to use this thread to say: "Fellas, sounds like a hell of a lot of trouble, either get used to washing or get into kegging! You'll save a lot of arguments with the missus when you're throwing empties in her oven!" h34r:

Very valid point I would say. Ultimately everyone on this thread is looking to save time, but if you're peeling labels, baking glass, then rinsing off the lot - you probably need to put the stopwatch on and ask yourself "Is this saving time? Or is it just another way of getting the same job done?" Certainly the contributors here who say it's a chemical free way of going have a valid point though.

Was passing on the autoclave point as I had read it in Ashton Lewis' 'Homebrewers Answer Book' and wanted to pass it on as found it quite interesting.

But maybe the answer is just staring us bottlers (myself included) in the face. If we really want to save time, we need to get a keg. Or like myself, save like hell and eventually get one.

Hopper (not a keg owner, but certainly a frustrated bottle washer)

 

[apd]

Here's a question: Anyone baked a grolsch swingtop? (Rubber seal removed)

I'm a kegger but have plenty of these bottles and usually bottle a couple at the end of each brew.

Yes, I bake my swingtops (Grolsch and other types). I remove the whole swingtop and place aluminium over the top og the bottle. The swingtop and rubber gets sanitised on bottling day with my crown seals.

Andrew

 

[apd]

I give them a good old blast though - into the oven at low for 30 min, up to medium for 30, then up to 180-200C for 30-60. Dry heat sterilization is much less effective than steam/pressure. I don't think for instance that Andrew's 110C for ten minutes, nor your 95 for an hour is long enough or hot enough to be sure that things are properly dead.

Obviously your post and a few other posts here suggest that a higher temp is better. I think I got my temp from a website with information about preserving (jams, etc.) but maybe it's time to update my method.

My current method is that I put all the bottles in the oven then turn it on, so they are in there while it heats up, which takes around 15 minutes. Then they're in there for another 10-15 plus the time they take to cool down. Also, the bottles are thoroughly cleaned, not just rinsed. 'Sanitisation is 95% cleanliness'.

Anyone baked bottles with the labels still on?

Yep, all the time. Never had a problem although I don't bake at 200*C. Not sure if the higher temp might cause a problem.

Andrew

 

[haysie]

My labels (Melb Bitter get a bit dark but ok at 200, although I have made the mistake of not removing the plastic/gluey type ala redback grandridge stubbies and they shrivell up and stick too your fingers.

 

[Rodolphe01]

regarding saving for a keg... easy done. what i don't like about kegging is if i just want 1 or 2 on a school night i need the whole keg chilled the whole time. currently i just chill what i want.

parties etc would be great to have a keg going though.

and yes, i still swear when i am bottling, but my 6 yr old daughter enjoys helping so it isn't too painful.

 

[haysie]

If the plastic sheathing inside the caps melts in the oven why not just sterilise them wth boiling water & allow to dry? Then seal the bottles.

TP

Cause it would take a lot of water and time I guess. The plastic sheathing thing in the oven worries me?.