Slow Saison

[marlow_coates]

Hey guys,
Finally put down my 'not to guidelines' saison last friday,

2 x int. coopers pale ale tins each 1.7kg
1 x morgans extra pale liquid malt extract unhopped
500g LDME

Wyeast belgian saison 3724 smacked and left for 3 hours till full, then pitched to 2L jug of 1040 wort (LDME) for 6 hours prior to pitching at 26C
(figured it should be cranking when added to wort as OG was 1074 at 26C)

Got 24L all up, and has been a steady 21C (since the first few hours), krausen wasn't huge but a few inches tall, and there have been observable small bubbles conitinuously since then. (viewing through glad wrap)

Anyway on monday (4days into ferment) SG reading was only down to 1064, and this afternoon (thursday - day 6 into ferment) only moved to 1058!

Is it normal for this saison yeast to take so long to munch through?
Was my OG too high and therefore didn't encourage enough yeast action?
Shoud I have left the starter for longer?

I have just added the last ingrediant, and extra 1kg of white sugar boiled with citric acid to make homemade belgian candi sugar (or close anyway ). Once added it took temp up to 26C again, and I am planning on keeping it that high with brew belt till I see some serious yeast action. Intending to end up with a heavy (10.5% beer) with about 40 IBU's, around 7EBC and a fair bit of body to boot.

Has anyone else used this yeast in such high gravities? and does it take more than a couple of weeks to finish?

Cheers
(that took a lot longer to write than expected

Marlow

 

[newguy]

I've had problems with 3724 as well. Raising the temperature will help. You can also add yeast nutrient if you wish (it's never too late to add it). Just mix a few teaspoons into ~100ml of water and boil it in the microwave, then add it while it's still hot. Swirl the fermenter - gently - twice a day for a week and it should help kickstart the yeast.

 

[Stuster]

Is it normal for this saison yeast to take so long to munch through?
Was my OG too high and therefore didn't encourage enough yeast action?
Shoud I have left the starter for longer?

Yes, this yeast is pretty slow at times. 21C is too cool for it, so heating it up is good. You can take it up to 30C or more. Yes, you should have got your starter going earlier. Was the pack really swollen up after only 3 hours? Usually it takes a bit longer than this to get much yeast growth. The yeast will struggle a little more with a 1070 wort but this yeast should get there in the end. It can take 3-4 weeks to finish up. Usually, though this yeast starts well and then slows down towards the end. I'd say you underpitched and this is why it's going slowly, along with the cold (for this yeast anyway). Crank it up to 30C and check again in a week.

 

[marlow_coates]

Cheers fellas,
I had read that it gets stuck later in fermentation and needs higher temps to finish off.

Yeah the pack was almost at bursting after 3 hours. It's my first smack pack so didn't know what to expect.

Also after pitching I figured it could have done with another 24 hours and allowed to develop its krausen

I will bring the temp to about 30C and leave it a couple days.

I was hoping to avoid using yeast nutrients as I have read they can leave very 'off' flavours in the beer.

Spose patience is a virtue in brews like this.
Hope its worth it

Marlow

 

[marlow_coates]

Thought I would update on the Saison.

So it has been very slow going.
Left it at 30C for about two weeks. It then got stuck at about 1030.
Racked it into another vessel and added a champagne yeast and brought temp back to about 24C.
Only went down to 1024 after another week.
Made up a 1L starter with 100g LDME and a culture of the Saison yeast originally used (kicked off beautifully) and added this.
Had some solid activity at just the 24C for about another week (whether this is the champagne yeast or saison yeast I am unsure) but all bubbling has stopped and SG is 1023 :mellow: . Not sure if all that extra activity was the 100g LDME but it seems so.

Anyway am sick of umming and arring so I added finings this morning. Will check SG again in 2 days and if hasn't budged I am declaring this puppy finished. It will then sit in fridge for a night and into the champagne bottles.

This has been an adventure so far and I am praying for an unproductive bottling (no bombs) and a decent beer. From tastings it has a strong alcohol taste (expected) but a decent body and a little residual sweetness. I reckon some time to mature will help, but a six pack of stubbies will give me incremental guidence. :icon_cheers:

Also, I have read that people have had trouble getting their saisons to carb up in the bottle. I am feeling safe with this because it has some champagne yeast in there too so should work even if the saison goes to sleep.
Any words or advice on this?

I will keep it somewhere warm for a couple of weeks once in the bottle just to encourage it.

 

[marlow_coates]

Update time again.

Brew has been bottled for almost 3 months now. Finished at 1023 and is 11% or there abouts.
Am trialling one each month to see how it goes.

First month had strong alcohol hotness and flavour was like a smack in the face.
Second month, the alcohol hotness had died down a bit but still there, and a more mellow version of the strong flavour remains.

Last night (almost 3 months) it was getting quite drinkable. You can tell it is probably a highish alcohol beer but definately doesn't taste like 11%. The flavour of the beer itself is still very strong but this was expected. I am no good at trying to describe the actual taste but will liken it to having several beers rolled into one. Fairly bitter but balanced with strong malty? flavours. It is still a bit overwhelming but I reckon another month or two and it will be time to let the family actually try a few.

I know this beer doesn't fit the guidelines for a Saison. It was an experiment, and I am happy with the results so far. It definately doesn't taste like anything I have made before or even tasted at the bottlo. I am putting this down the the yeast which I am glad I harvested from the cake because I will do another in time.

Will update again in a few more months or if flavour changes significantly.

Cheers