Recipe Critique - Red IPA

[GrumpyPaul]

Hi All

This is my first go at building my own recipe from scratch and not plagiarising and tinkering with an existing recipe.

I want to create something similar - but doesnt have to be an exact clone - of the Little Creatures Shepherds delight.

Grain bill is based on some reading on here about what people have tried and tested to get a nice red colour.

Hops are determined by whats in my freezer.

Info on the Sheperds Delight bottle says it was EBC 40 IBU 50 - so that is what I aimed for.

So here is what I have come up with.

Grumpy's Red Shepherd IPA

18 ltr batch

Grain bill
5.7kg Ale Malt
200gCaraaroma
60g Roasted Barley

Hop Schedule
Apollo 10 @60
Mosaic 10 @60
Apollo 5 @40
Mosaic 5 @40
Apollo 5 @20
Mosaic 5 @20
Mosaic 5 @5

Yeast US05

60min Mash at 67
10mins Mashout at 75

Expected OG: 1060
Expected FG: 1015

EBC 40.1
IBU 50

5.9% ABV (kegged)

Ferment at 18 degrees

I used Ianh's BIAB spreadsheet to formulate this. Will try put it inot brewmate at home

 

[davedoran]

Could try add some carared to get more reddish colour if that's what your after

 

[mkstalen]

Could also chuck in some Melanoidin Malt. I used some in my Honey Red Ale, and it's got a great colour to it.

Much like Munich, but with more aroma. Lends mouthfeel and great aromatics to the beer. Has a nice almost biscuit flavor. Use to help replicate the maltiness and mouthfeel found in decoction mashes. Could be overpowering if used as more than 20% of the grain bill. Must be mashed. Improves flavor stability, fullness, and imparts a reddish color to dark, amber, and red-colored beers. Great for use in Dark Lagers and Red Ales.

 

[verysupple]

Could try add some carared to get more reddish colour if that's what your after

I've only used it once and only a small amount, but I have to agree with what others have posted in other threads about CaraRed, it's not really very red. I'd stick with your CaraAroma and roast barley for redness.

Other than that, it looks tasty. I've never had Shepherds Delight, though, so I couldn't say if it'll be anythign like that.

 

[lukiferj]

A red IPA is one of my house beers. Have made a bunch of them. I like to use a bit more caraarroma (around 7%) and a mixture of black/carafa/roast barley (around 1.2%) and the rest pale malt to get the colour without getting any of the roast flavours.

 

[brewtas]

Malt bill looks good. The hops are less than half of what I'd use for an American Pale Ale let alone an IPA. You'll need to increase the late hop quantities quite a bit.

As an idea for the hop quantities, this is the recipe I used just over a month ago. It turned out pretty great and a deep red-black colour. There's more info on my blog post about it here.

Red IPA
OG: 1.063 (1.061 measured)
FG: 1.011
IBU: 70 (estimated)
EBC: 34.2
ABV: 6.6%

79% Golden Promise malt
15% Best Malz Munich malt
5% Weyermann CaraAroma
1% Roast Barley

25g Columbus @ FWH
60g Centennial @ 0 min (with 20 minute hop stand)
40g Galaxy @ 0 min (with 20 minute hop stand)
50g Centennial @ dry hop
50g Columbus @ dry hop

WLP090

 

[lukiferj]

Agree about the hops. Definitely need more.

What's the thinking behind the 40 and 20 min additions? I usually use a bittering addition and then hops at either 10, 5 or flameout for an IPA.

 

[Dan Pratt]

+ 1 for Caraaroma for getting your beer red and a 1-2% of black/carafa to deepen that some

As mentioned you should really be using late additions and remove the 40m & 20mins. The general go by is 1/3 total ibu from a 60min/bittering addition and the rest to come from <15 minute additions. Dry hopping is a given.

For me those hops would be used like this;

Apollo @ 60m = 16 ibu
Mosaic @ 15m = 11 ibu
Mosaic @ 10m = 11 ibu
Mosaic @ 5m = 12 ibu

Mosaic/Apollo Dry Hopped - 56g each

Look forward to seeing a final product photo.

 

[verysupple]

Oh yeah, as others have pointed out you need way more late hops for an IPA...I was mainly looking at your grain bill and thinking about getting the red colour.

Dry hopping isn't absolutely necessary for an IPA but if you don't dry hop you'll probably want to increase the 0 min addition to make up for it.

 

[GrumpyPaul]

thanks to everyone for you input - here is version 2

I dont have enought mosaic on hand to bump it up as mucjh as suggested so I have split he late addition between an equal mix of Galaxy with the Mosaic

Grumpy's Red Shepherd IPA

18 ltr batch

Grain bill
5.7kg Ale Malt
500gCaraaroma
100g Melanoidin
50g Roasted Barley

Hop Schedule
Apollo 15 @60
Mosaic 10 @15
Galaxy 10 @15
Mosaic 15 @10
Galaxy 15 @10
Mosaic 30 @5
Galaxy 30 @5

Dry Hop about 50g mix of galaxy and Mosaic (depending on whats left)

Yeast US05

60min Mash at 67
10mins Mashout at 75

Expected OG: 1064
Expected FG: 1016

EBC 55
IBU 62

6.3% ABV (kegged)

Ferment at 18 degrees

 

[indica86]

From my limited brewing experience that hop schedule looks much better.,

 

[lukiferj]

Should make a pretty tasty beer. I prefer to mash at 65/66 for an IPA so it attenuates a bit better and lets the hops shine. In any case, should make a very drinkable beer.

 

[GrumpyPaul]

Mrs Grumpy is doing a night shift - so tonight is brew night. Event hough its a school night I resisted the urge to do anything silly (like a 10 minute boil)

Stuck to the second version above - but I had to change the last hop addition to 19 Mosaic and 41 Galaxy.

Shall report back when this one is ready to drink.

 

[Coodgee]

I see the red IPA is now part of the specialty IPA category. I was thinking of submitting one to a comp in the near future. From what I have read on various American forums, this beer is often made with quite a bit of specialty malt. But the style guidelines seem reasonably specific that the beer should not be sweet and remain fairly dry like an IPA:

Overall Impression: Hoppy, bitter, and moderately strong like an American IPA, but with some caramel, toffee, and/or dark fruit malt character. Retaining the dryish finish and lean body that makes IPAs so drinkable, a Red IPA is a little more flavorful and malty than an American IPA without being sweet or heavy.

Characteristic Ingredients: Similar to an American IPA, but with medium or dark crystal malts, possibly some character malts with a light toasty aspect. May use sugar adjuncts. American or New World finishing hops with tropical, fruity, citrusy, piney, berry, or melon aspects; the choice of hops and character malts is synergistic – they very much have to complement each other and not clash.

Style Comparison: Similar to the difference between an American Amber Ale and an American Pale Ale, a Red IPA will differ from an American IPA with the addition of some darker crystal malts giving a slightly sweeter, more caramelly and dark fruit-based balance. A Red IPA differs from an American Strong Ale in that the malt profile is less intense and there is less body; a Red IPA still has an IPA balance and doesn’t trend towards a barleywine-like malt character. A Red IPA is like a stronger, hoppier American Amber Ale, with the characteristic dry finish, medium-light body, and strong late hop character.

I brewed one recently that I really liked but fear it might not be dry enough for a comp. would be interested in hearing people's interpretation of the style compared to the recipe below. The idea would be to mash at 65 degrees and use nottingham yeast for a well attenuated finish.

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
10.00 g               Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent   1        -             
5.00 kg               Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.6 EBC)           Grain         2        80.6 %        
0.50 kg               Munich Malt (14.5 EBC)                   Grain         3        8.1 %         
0.30 kg               Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC)        Grain         4        4.8 %         
0.30 kg               Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC)   Grain         5        4.8 %         
0.10 kg               Acid Malt (5.9 EBC)                      Grain         6        1.6 %         
10.00 g               Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.40 %] - Boil 30. Hop           7        11.6 IBUs     
10.00 g               Simcoe [13.20 %] - Boil 30.0 min         Hop           8        9.9 IBUs      
10.00 g               Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.40 %] - Boil 20. Hop           9        9.1 IBUs      
10.00 g               Simcoe [13.20 %] - Boil 20.0 min         Hop           10       7.8 IBUs      
0.50 Items            Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)        Fining        11       -             
10.00 g               Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.40 %] - Boil 10. Hop           12       5.5 IBUs      
10.00 g               Simcoe [13.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min         Hop           13       4.7 IBUs      
40.00 g               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  10.0 Hop           14       9.2 IBUs      
10.00 g               Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.40 %] - Steep/Wh Hop           15       2.7 IBUs      
1.0 pkg               Nottingham (Danstar #-) [23.66 ml]       Yeast         16       -             
50.00 g               Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop  Hop           17       0.0 IBUs      
100.00 g              Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days      Hop           18       0.0 IBUs      


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 6.20 kg
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Saccharification  Heat to 65.0 C over 15 min              65.0 C        45 min        
Mash Out          Heat to 76.0 C over 10 min              76.0 C        10 min

 

[Dan Pratt]

Hey,

Consider getting your red colour from something other than caraaroma. Its great for red beers but will dominate the aroma, hence the name. The hops are hard to notice for aromatics when that malt is used.

Check out this link for some ideas.

http://merrimashers.org/recipe/tims-ipa

Interestingly back in 2014 I +1 for caraaroma, that was until I figured out how much effect that had on the hop aroma.

 

[GrumpyPaul]

I use a small amount of roasted barley for the red....

I think it's only a couple of % of the grain bill. But I'll have to check for you when I get home

 

[Blind Dog]

Depending on what comp you're entering, either increase the Caraaroma (if its one I'm entering as well), or sub all or some for something else (if it isn't)

 

[Coodgee]

The one i actually brewed recently was just a dark English crystal not caraaroma but recent research resulted in that change but thanks for the heads up.