3v Design Help

[jlmcgrath]

Hi Everyone,

I don't post much, mostly just creep.

Hoping all of the experienced 3v brewers on here can help me out with the design of a fairly simple 3v system.

I have been brewing 40L batches using a 70L kettle and spiral burner with the BIAB method. Has worked out pretty well so far, but am tired of pulling the bag out, and want to move onto the next level. I would like to brew 40L batches regardless of the gravity. Seems those Barleywines and RIS never last long enough. I would also like to one day upgrade it into a HERMS setup using a small heat exchanger.

I'm sure my current plan is full of holes. Please point them out if you notice them.

I would like to use some of the equipment that I currently use in building this new system.

70L kettle w/ ball valve
High flow march pump
Italian Spiral burner - Might need to be upgraded as its a bit underpowered I think
Counter flow chiller
Brewstand

I would add some pictures, but I'm not sure how to.

So, now onto my plan.
I was thinking I would install a 2200W element in my 70L kettle and turn that into my HLT. I have a spare stc1000 that I would use to measure the temperature. Are the probes that the temp controllers come with okay for this type of application when put inside a thermowell? I'm assuming I would need to stir the HLT to get an accurate reading.

I picked up an 80L Old Swan brewery keg that I planned to use as a MT. I have a 12" false bottom for this. Plan was to batch sparge, but my mind could be changed easily.

Was thinking I would buy a 100L kettle for the boiler. Boiling a double batch for 90 min in the 70L kettle fills it almost to the very top, so I figured I would give myself a bit of extra space.

Do these vessel sizes seem adequate for what I am planning to do?

Also curious about hop and trub management after the boil. I have been recirculating out of the kettle, through the pump and chiller and back into the kettle for a whirlpool. After its chilled, I turn off the pump and let it rest for ~20 min and then drain through a pickup tube near the kettle wall. It works semi ok, but I think there has to be a better way to do it.

I'm sure I have left out tons of details that would be helpful to the design. If anyone needs more info in order to help the design process along, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.
Jeff M

 

[gava]

I had a 75LT HLT with a 2200watt element and it took FOREVER to pre-heat... I notice you had a gas burner I'd have the GAS under the HLT to get it up to temp quicker or just use that and don't bother about the element and STC1000.. If you dont care about the preheat time and you just want to turn it on about 2hrs before hand then you are fine.

Do you have a HERMS coil in your HLT? if you do i suggest not using a STC1000 since it's a on/off device and you'll over/undershoot all the time. I'd pickup a PID Controller if you're rig has this configuration. if not stc1000 is fine. Yes,I'd recommend stirring your HLT to get a consistent temperature throughout.

As for the hop and trub management, I've used false bottoms in my boil kettle or a pickup strainer from Beer Belly are good. Your whirlpool and 20~ settle out time if a good way to get solid hop cone which shouldn't slide into your fermenter..

I haven't used gas for awhile but with a 100L pot you'd want to know if your burner and gas regulator can get this up to a solid rolling boil.

-Gav

 

[Yob]

I fitted a little 12v brown pump to my 70l hlt, stirring will get old real quick, I mounted the probe in a copper T piece at the outlet of the pump, pretty sure I posted a picture of it a few days ago..

 

[MastersBrewery]

The 80l keg you refer to is probably similar to mine and has a valley around the bottom(hard to explain) any grain sitting in this valley would gain little from any recirculation. I would in your shoes use you 70L pot as MLT the 100L pot you want to get as HLT and your 80L keg as kettle. You always find on brew day there is no such thing as too much hot water avaliable, so the bigger the HLT the better, a 70L MLT is well large enough for 40L batches of the largest beers the 12" false bottom will work well is this and avoid chanelling down the sides of the pot and the 80L keg will leave plenty of room to avoid boil overs. Your Italian burner will be fine, you will probably find you are using a standard regulator if it is currently struggling, upgrade the regulator to a medium or high pressure reg... and stand back with high pressure 150L boils are possible.

 

[Yob]

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/66978-stc-1000-helpadvice/?view=findpost&p=1153429

Piccie of the HLT

 

[MastersBrewery]

Yob,
that's on my list of things to do, I'm constantly overshooting, then have to sit around waiting for it to cool to strike temp, simple, cheap and effective, nice work!

 

[jlmcgrath]

Thanks for the quick responses gentlemen.

If I use the 100L kettle for the HLT with a 2200W element, I can just put it on a timer so it turns on a few hours before I wake up correct?

Any idea how much grain I could put into a 70L MLT?

I think you are probably right about the regulator. This is what I'm currently using.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/OzMade-QualityAdjustable-Regulator-1-8m-LPG-Gas-Hose-of-Cooktop-Wok-Burner-Stove-/260945323505?_trksid=p2054897.l4276

As far as a small control panel goes, I would be ok to use an STC-1000 to track my HLT temp as long as didn't have a herms coil inside. If in the future I built a small hx, that could be run separately on a PID controller while the HLT stayed on the STC-1000?

 

[MastersBrewery]

I use a 38L igloo drink cooler and have used 11.5kg of malts, resulting wort was 46L(fermenter) @1072 from memory so your brew length of 40L is probably tiny compared to what you could produce for a 70L mash tun for a standard beer

 

[MastersBrewery]

To expand on my previous post (I was on my way out the door) most brewers aim for between 2.5L and 4L of water per kilo of grain. Grain volume is 0.65L per kilo. Now you'd want a little space in the Tun for mixing when mashing in so say the max you wanted to have it filled was 65L. So let say 3L per kilo, so
3+0.65 = 3.65
65/3.65 = 17.8
at 75% efficiency that's 40L 1103 wort
Have a play with the numbers in brewmate (free) or beersmith (bloody cheap)
20kg for a big beer or barley wine I'd say would be doable @ 75%that's 40L 1.116 wort
MB

 

[jlmcgrath]

I'd say that is adequate for MLT size. Thanks for the help guys.

For ports in my vessels, does this sound adequate?

HLT- ball valve, sight glass and input/output for small brown pump to record.

MLT- ball valve drain

BK- ball valve drain, whirlpool.

where do people recommend placing the temp probe on the HLT?

Cheers
Jeff

 

[MastersBrewery]

HLT if your recircing with the little brown pump, use a thermo in this line, check Yobs set up above.

the rest looks all good