There are NO bad beer yeasts!

[Online Brewing Supplies]

So if a yeast throws more diacetyl than it "might" /can clean up its good , dont think so.
Not going to convince some people I know but I have been around brewing for a while to know better.
S23 for example throws a load off POF,s not what you want in a lager yeast, to me its bad.
Nev

 

[Ross]

I have been around brewing for a while to know better.

Nev

Exactly

 

[barls]

anyone else get this thought about the title
Cartman bad monkey! - YouTube

 

[bradsbrew]

Define bad ?
To say there are no bad yeast is daft.
If a yeast throws a bucket load of diactyl, then I say its bad and I dont use it.
I just trailed a dry wheat yeast and say its bad because it finished way too early, twice!
Each to their own.
Nev

Does that not go back to your process Nev? As OP stated, it probably falls back to something that you are doing that causes the yeast to throw those flavours. Early on I was getting Diacetyl and what I thought was an early finish when using 1968, changed a couple of things and the Diacetyl and sweetness went away. I personnally hate anything that throws bubblegum but would not say those yeasts are bad, I just do not like them. If I had to use it I would find what causes that flavour to increase/decrease and change the process for particular yeast.

 

[mosto]

So if a yeast throws more diacetyl than it "might" /can clean up its good , dont think so.
Not going to convince some people I know but I have been around brewing for a while to know better.
S23 for example throws a load off POF,s not what you want in a lager yeast, to me its bad.
Nev

I'm a complete novice compared to most in this discussion, but will share some personal experience which I think highlights Ross's point.

When still very new to brewing I purchased a Rapid Creek Pilsener kit and some S23 to make a Pilsener. Hadn't ventured into liquid yeasts yet, so S23 is what I went with. On tasting, it was nothing like a Pilsener, very little flavour and not a brew I was overly happy with. While on AHB one night, I was drinking said brew and reading about the upcoming NSW Homebrew Championships. Reading through the style guidelines, it dawned on me, "This isn't a Pilsener, it's a bland, but clean Aussie Lager". So I sent a bottle off for shits and giggles more than anything else. It took 2nd place in the Pale Lager category of that years event, and then took 3rd at the Australian Championships.

So, while it didn't produce the beer I was looking for, S23 did help produce an award winning beer nonetheless. The awards however, were probably a testament to my palate, rather than my brewing skills

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

No, some yeast just dont do what you want them to do, only a few but...
I dont try to combat the yeasts, better ones out there, I just dont use them, simple.
But to make a broad sweeping statement like , there are no bad brewing yeast is wrong.
My 2c
Nev

 

[AndrewQLD]

Perhaps you aren't leaving the beer on the yeast long enough to clean up the diacetyl?
Not telling you how to brew, it's just a thought.

 

[Ross]

No, some yeast just dont do what you want them to do, only a few but...
I dont try to combat the yeasts, better ones out there, I just dont use them, simple.
But to make a broad sweeping statement like , there are no bad brewing yeast is wrong.
My 2c
Nev

Just because they don't do what you want them to do, does not make them bad. Nothing wrong though with selecting something else that does what you want it to. Doesn't make the yeast bad though.
Still interested in the yeast you reckon has bucket loads of Diaceytl?

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Some yeasts need more love and care than others, and can produce a great result. I reckon 2nd place for a lager with an ale yeast is testament to that.

Also, some yeasts produce a result that one brewer considers desirable (even the BJCP guidelines state diacetyl is desirable or acceptable in some types of beer), and another considers undesirable.

Therefore to say any yeast is bad, is probably a question of taste, brewer's skill (or lack thereof*) and desired outcome.

*as Bradsbrew mentioned, he hates bubblegum, my missus loves it (and so do I), therefore the T58 has done what I would have asked it to do, but maybe not what Brad wanted. I fluked it. It isn't often that either a recipe or a yeast is spot on first time, it generally requires tweaking and some acquired experience. In this instance I got it right, but I wouldn't say it was brewer's skill (or at least creative skill) but educated luck.

 

[QldKev]

There's plenty of great yeasts out there, and there is a few I don't like. There are also many beer styles I don't like. Someone must drink that Russian beers cause they keep making it, so what I think is bad is not so bad in other peoples eyes.

In the dry yeast Vs liquid yeast debate, I honesty cannot tell the difference once it's fermenting away. That's all just a choice on the strain of the yeast and wherever or not it's dry or liquid is second in my book. I do mainly ferment from yeast which is started by a dry culture, but as most know I reuse the culture many times.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I have a funny feeling about this thread.....

 

[Tim]

...............purchased a Rapid Creek Pilsener kit and some S23 to make a Pilsener. Hadn't ventured into liquid yeasts yet, so S23 is what I went with........took 2nd place in the Pale Lager category of that years event, and then took 3rd at the Australian Championships......

Excellent work Mosto. Kit beer with dried yeast can and does make award winning beer.

 

[Tilt]

Some yeasts need more love and care than others, and can produce a great result. I reckon 2nd place for a lager with an ale yeast is testament to that.

I'd second this
When I judge the goodness and badness of yeasts I often come down to the questions - which yeast produces what I want, with the equipment and process I usually use and doesn't need a whole bunch of hand holding to get it over the line?
Things I look for in my favourite strains include how easy it is to use. Like...

• Does it produce an explosive ferment in the first 3 days? (i.e. what's the risk of having to clean a spewed krausen out of the ferment fridge)
• does it have a broad ferment temp range or is it finicky
• does it attenuate and flocc well?
• how much time does it need to clean up after itself?
• how hard do I need to fine it to produce a clear beer?

Answers to these questions tell me whether I can be bothered with it.
Having said that - it definitely comes down to reward for effort. If the only way I can get the beer I want is to use a yeast that throws up all over the fermenter, needs double dropping twice in the first 24 hours, needs 0.5 degree rises every 12 hours to 25 degrees over a 4 day period and I have to CC then fine twice to clean up then so be it. But I wouldn't call it a great yeast - its still a bugger to use, but the only one that delivers the goods.

Edit: attempt to make consistent font size, buggared if I know how to do it.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

So the question may not be - is there a good yeast and bad yeast, but 'is this yeast forgiving?'

 

[Tilt]

So the question may not be - is there a good yeast and bad yeast, but 'is this yeast forgiving?'

Yeah - or what's it like on the bang for buck (i.e. skill/expertise/effort) scale?
Best case scenario for me is a yeast that does what I want without having to pay it disproportionate amounts of attention.

 

[jlm]

I subscribe to the theory that some yeasts need their target range of brews reduced. S04-dark beers good......pale beers.......no thanks.

 

[benno1973]

So is bakers yeast just a yeast I haven't mastered yet?

 

[mosto]

Excellent work Mosto. Kit beer with dried yeast can and does make award winning beer.

...and didn't re-hydrate either h34r:

 

[Tilt]

So is bakers yeast just a yeast I haven't mastered yet?

Its got its place on the bang for buck scale. Not much buck for FA bang...but if you run out of yeast during a 3.00am Sunday morning brew session then a dash to the supermarket might be your only option :blink: .

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I subscribe to the theory that some yeasts need their target range of brews reduced. S04-dark beers good......pale beers.......no thanks.

I thought you *loved* S04 @jlm...... h34r: