Adjuncts In A Wit

[Dave86]

I was checking out the local health food/hippy shop and found an extensive range of possible adjunts that could be interesting to use in a wit (thinking of calling it the multigrain witbier) Now I'm wondering how to mash this stuff. I assume anything flaked will be fine for an infusion but heres what I found:

Flaked: quinoa, rye, triticale, spelt, millet
Puffed amaranth
Hulled millet
Maize meal
Roasted buckwheat

I also have raw wheat from my parents farm, malted oats and flaked oats. I assume the wheat, maize meal and hulled millet would require boiling. What about the rest? Anyone used any of these? Safe to do an infusion mash?

Cheers

Dave

 

[newguy]

Anything flaked or puffed can be thrown into the mash, the others should probably be boiled beforehand (cereal mash - but I could be wrong). Triticale is a cross between rye & barley and it is really an acquired taste. The ag ministry here gave a few 25kg bags to our brew club a few years ago. I believe it was a 'trial' crop at that time. We each took a few kg. They wanted our input as to whether they could/should aggressively market it to breweries as a specialty grain. Almost to a man, everyone hated it. There's only one guy in our club who absolutely loves it, and he's been taking our samples off of our hands. It's really astringent, with one hell of a harsh, biting flavour. It's kind of like rye, but way more harsh. At least to my tastebuds, anyway. Then again, I don't like rye either. It goes without saying that the ministry has quietly dropped their promotion/trial of triticale. The only thing that I could see triticale working in is a dry stout. The guy who really likes it has used it in several tripel/belgian golden strongs, and it almost works there. Okay, but not great.

Hope this helps.

 

[Stuster]

I've used flaked rye which gives a nice rich mouthfeel to the beer, some red colour and some slight spice. Flaked triticale is fairly similar really, though a bit more subtle. I used flaked spelt in a Farmhouse ale recently, but with all that was going on in that beer I couldn't honestly say I knew what the spelt contributed. Nothing bad anyway.

I've only read about the buckwheat, but in Radical Brewing Randy Mosher suggests it contributes a goaty flavour. Hmm. Which is why I've never used it.

As you say, all the flaked stuff you can just chuck in the mash, single infusion is fine. The rest probably would benefit from a cereal mash.

 

[warrenlw63]

Triticale is a cross between rye & barley

NG I thought it was Wheat and Rye?

Dave I reckon the flaked spelt would be highly interesting.

Warren -

 

[newguy]

NG I thought it was Wheat and Rye?

Whoops, you're right. Wheat & rye, not barley & rye.

 

[warrenlw63]

Whoops, you're right. Wheat & rye, not barley & rye.

:lol: No problemo... One way or another I agree though. Tastes dreadful.

Warren -

 

[Dave86]

NG I thought it was Wheat and Rye?

Dave I reckon the flaked spelt would be highly interesting.

Warren -

Thats what I thought, isn't spelt supposed to be a good substitute for some of the raw wheat in a wit? Thanks for the heads up stuster, I might steer clear of the buckwheat then

I thought triticale might be nice, like using a mix of rye and wheat Maybe I'll think on it..

Is a cereal mash really necessary? This seems a bit out of my league, I was hoping to use some of the raw wheat I'd gotten, maybe 40% in a wit, but was hoping a straight out boil would do the trick. (as well as the standard mash afterwards of course)

Thanks for the replies

Dave

 

[mickoz]

I always put spelt in my wit. Usually whole grains that I mill and cook off with a small qty of oats and rolled wheat before adding to my malted barley in the mash.

Spelt has a little more flavour than wheat IMO.

Mick

 

[Stuster]

:lol: No problemo... One way or another I agree though. Tastes dreadful.

Warren -

But what do you really think of it? :lol: What did you use it in, Warren?

 

[warrenlw63]

I used it several years ago in a stronger Wit. Partially subbed for some of the usual flaked wheat. No notes in front of me (older recipes are on the old computer in the garage) but from memory I used around a 30% combination of flaked wheat and triticale in a 23 litre batch. Best way to describe the flavour would be to say it just got in the way of everything else. The flaked wheat was not the villain as I'd used it several times before. <_<

To me it gave a husky kind of "overcooked" flavour that would be better suited to darker beers. I found myself relieved at the fact I didn't use it totally in lieu of the wheat as I was toying with the idea of.

The one I'd like to try is Spelt which is an ingredient in Saison d'Epature (sp?) Or could I just be asking for similar trouble?

I've also used Bourghul (or Bulgar) in a Wit and Saison. Found this to be quite good. It's just cracked/steamed wheat and lends the finished beer a really great dryness.

Edit: speeeelinngg

Warren -

 

[Stuster]

I did a Saison D'Epeautre clone-ish thing in December with the Farmhouse ale yeast which is apparently that Blaugies yeast. Here's what I ended up with. As I said, with the hops and the intense flavours from that yeast, picking out the contribution from the spelt was hard, but it did come out really nicely IM(not H)O. Ended up at 1006 for 87% attenuation. I've also used that yeast in a Super Saison that's more like 8% but it's still on the young side. I'd certainly give spelt another go.


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Saison D'Epeautre
Brewer: Stuart Upton
Asst Brewer:
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 18.00 L
Boil Size: 22.06 L
Estimated OG: 1.048 SG
Estimated Color: 9.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 30.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 74.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 kg Bohemian Pilsner (5.9 EBC) Grain 74.07 %
0.80 kg Spelt (5.9 EBC) Grain 19.75 %
0.25 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBGrain 6.17 %
40.00 gm Cluster [5.30 %] (60 min) Hops 26.8 IBU
14.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.60 %] (15 min) Hops 4.1 IBU
14.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.60 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hops -
2.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
2.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Farmhouse Ale (Wyeast Labs #3726) Yeast-Ale

 

[warrenlw63]

Wow! That looks nice. Did you use raw spelt or by some minor miracle did you aquire flaked or malted spelt?

I've had my eyes open for the stuff (flaked spelt) for a while. No joy thus far.

Warren -

 

[Stuster]

It was flaked spelt. It was from a local hippy shop and bizarrely, I had a choice of two brands.

 

[Dave86]

If you want any spelt mailed to you, I'm happy to ask the shop if they do a mail order service, or mail it to you myself, just shoot me a PM. Its not cheap from memory, about $4 for a 250g bag..

Dave

 

[tangent]

Don't "boil" adjuncts, steep in hot water or simmer them. Otherwise they break up and make glue.

DON'T add 40% unmalted wheat in a Wit!!! I recently used 60% wheat in a Wit and 15% of that was raw wheat. Way too tart. Try 5%

I get free wheat and barley from farmers and use them as adjuncts but only use a small amount of wheat.
I just use fresh raw grain and run it through the mill a bit finer, then add it to the rest of the grist.

 

[Dave86]

Don't "boil" adjuncts, steep in hot water or simmer them. Otherwise they break up and make glue.

DON'T add 40% unmalted wheat in a Wit!!! I recently used 60% wheat in a Wit and 15% of that was raw wheat. Way too tart. Try 5%

I get free wheat and barley from farmers and use them as adjuncts but only use a small amount of wheat.
I just use fresh raw grain and run it through the mill a bit finer, then add it to the rest of the grist.

Really? Thats surprising, do you think the tartness could be attributed to using fresh whole wheat as opposed to flaked, torrified, bourghoul, etc? I used 45% bourghoul in my first wit and thought it didn't contribute a whole lot of wheatiness for the high proportion used. I did overdo the chamomile however, so that took some getting used to...

 

[tangent]

torrefied and flaked might be processed differently but bourghul (broken wheat) is coarsely milled wheat.
I prefer to mill it myself because you get some flour from it which converts more. I'm not sure coarse milled wheat is very efficient. (and certainly doesn't smell as fresh as fresh milled)

 

[Dave86]

Isn't bourghoul boiled as well? Or is it steamed? For some reason I was thinking that whole fresh wheat would be better for more flavour :unsure:

 

[warrenlw63]

torrefied and flaked might be processed differently but bourghul (broken wheat) is coarsely milled wheat.
I prefer to mill it myself because you get some flour from it which converts more. I'm not sure coarse milled wheat is very efficient. (and certainly doesn't smell as fresh as fresh milled)

Tangent

Bourghul comes in two grades... Coarse and fine. You can also get normal and wholemeal. All depends on where you purchase it. I can highly recommend Middle Eastern nut shops.

It's already pre-cooked (steamed from memory). I've used amounts up to 25% and gotten normal efficiency. To me the finish is basically dry/wheaty/cracker like.

Tis fine.

Edit: Sorry Dave. I just noticed you mentioned it was steamed too.

Warren -

 

[tangent]

as with any ingredient, fresh is best IMO. And you get to smell it coming out of the mill