Super Sad Sunday Morning

[Bbowzky1]

Hey guys. Got a nice all grain bohemian pils going. Peen bubbling away nice and slowly with Wyeast 2278 at 10c in the garage for 10days and has dropped 80% of its gravity.
Brought it in yesterday arvo and chucked a heat belt on to rais temp for a diacatyl rest.

So some friends come over and we drink and heat belt goes off and on and I get way smashed and go to bed.
Wake up this morning killer hang over and the dreadful thought that id left the heat belt on

So i stumble outta bed and make myway down stairs with a killer headache and churning gut to find my pils at 28c

Its yuk. Last time i tried it when checking gravity was coming along a treat. But now its just really bitter tangy and leaves this flavor. Makes me super sad face.

My question is is it fucked?
Can i rack it cultivate new yeast pitch it and hope it eats the off flavours.
After largering in the fridge for 8 weeks at 2c will it taste any better? (I will leave it to hopefully finish a diacatyl rest and then rack and leave back in garage for a week before kegging).
Am i better off just cutting my losses and tipping it out?

Thanks guys.
Its Such a Super Sad Sunday Morning

 

[Florian]

Maybe grab a commercial bottle of bo pils, heat that up to 28 degrees and try it then.

Chances are you're not too far off the mark.

I doubt you would've done that much damage in a few hours that far into fermentation.

 

[manticle]

While 28 is far from ideal, most of the ester formation is set earlier on. You may have accelerated some oxidation reactions but get it back down, give it a good few weeks lagering and I reckon you'll be alright.

What do you mean by 'yuck'?

 

[Ditchnbeer]

Don't give up on it.
I finished fermenting a Vienna lager at 17 degrees and then moved house...I moved the fermenter myself and just threw it into the fridge at the new place but totally forgot about it. Next day I remember the beer and check it, it was a warm weekend and I found it at 26.
I got the temp back under control (gently, a degree per day, no quick crashing) and the beer was superb 6 weeks later.

 

[Bbowzky1]

While 28 is far from ideal, most of the ester formation is set earlier on. You may have accelerated some oxidation reactions but get it back down, give it a good few weeks lagering and I reckon you'll be alright.
What do you mean by 'yuck'?

You guys are awesome. Feeling pretty seedy and this just crushed me this morning ay.

I hope its still good cause when i checked gravity yesterday before bringing it in it was quite tasty. A little sweet, estery and the aroma was quite that of a larger yeast but all in all it was a tasty beer.

Had a go at it this morning tho after my worst fears were realised and it had a horrible tangy taste and it just hung around for ages in my mouth. I hope its mire due to temp and that im pretty hungover then that i ruined all my hard work.

Ive put it in the laundry which is pretty constant 12-14, the house is pretty constant 16-18 and the garage around 8-10.
Ill let it get back to 16-18 and put it back inside for the rest.

So you guys generally think if i get it back to 16-18 (this is what ive been told to be a good rest temp) leave it for the week. Rack it off the trub and allow to clarify in the garage for a week the keg and larger in the fridge for 8 weeks at 2c well be all good?

I dont wanna go thru all that for a horrible beer

 

[antiphile]

...but whatever you do, while you're feeling like death that is yet to warmed up, don't let anyone hear you making crazy resolutions like going on the wagon or similar. These things come back to haunt you.

 

[manticle]

First of all, just get the temp down on a sample and see if it's just hot beer you were tasting.
Then look up how to do a forced diacetyl/vdk test. The 28 deg on top of your 16 may have converted all the diacetyl precursor so the extra week may be unnecessary. You won't know till you check though.

Describe the yuck flavour. To my mind it could be yeast cells beginning to break down (could be soapy, fatty, meaty), or diacetyl/vdk from whatever precursor was left (buttery/thick/slick/popcorn) or just hot beer.

Once you know that no vdk remains(diacetyl is a vdk) you can transfer and lager for your 8 weeks. You can still sample during the 8 weeks so if it is ruined, you won't waste time. I can't taste it, I can only guess but my feeling is that it will come good, all else being equal.

 

[Bbowzky1]

First of all, just get the temp down on a sample and see if it's just hot beer you were tasting.
Then look up how to do a forced diacetyl/vdk test. The 28 deg on top of your 16 may have converted all the diacetyl precursor so the extra week may be unnecessary. You won't know till you check though.
Describe the yuck flavour. To my mind it could be yeast cells beginning to break down (could be soapy, fatty, meaty), or diacetyl/vdk from whatever precursor was left (buttery/thick/slick/popcorn) or just hot beer.
Once you know that no vdk remains(diacetyl is a vdk) you can transfer and lager for your 8 weeks. You can still sample during the 8 weeks so if it is ruined, you won't waste time. I can't taste it, I can only guess but my feeling is that it will come good, all else being equal.

The flavour is just quiet green. Theres a decent yeasty flavour so maybe i get it of the trub?
The taste that sticks on the palet is a slight chemically dry flavour. Very hard to describe havnt tasted it before other then drinking warm beer. But its not quiet the same. Might just be the warmth. Ive put some in a glas and glad wraped in the fridge to try it at a lower temp to see it that flavour goes away.

The beer is still bubbling slightly and nit quiet at target FG so i dont wanna go largering it before it finished. But if the yeast is spent i wanna get it off trub.
I split my smack pack 4 ways so i just gotta culture up some more uf ya think that will help with some of those flavours

Cheers mate your a massive help

 

[manticle]

Definitely don't lager till it hits fg.
Also generally don't remove from yeast till it's at fg although in your case, sepaeating and adding some active yeast (as in active starter) might be a good idea.

 

[Bbowzky1]

Definitely don't lager till it hits fg.
Also generally don't remove from yeast till it's at fg although in your case, sepaeating and adding some active yeast (as in active starter) might be a good idea.

Just at the pub watching the footy. When i get home ill try the sample ive chilling in the fridge. If its yeasty ill rack it off the trub and make a new starter of 2278 and go from there. If all good ill transfer off once it hits FG

 

[antiphile]

I'm really just thinking out loud here. If you think 28C is likely to be the maximum temp it got to overnight, I'd reckon the yeast (even a lager yeast) would have no problems coping with it without too much autolysis going on. I agree there may be a temporary problem with it fermenting overnight towards that temp, but as mentioned by someone above, on day 5 or 6 it really shouldn't present much of a problem for a 12 hour time span.

While I prefer to propagate yeasts around the 18-20c mark, others do it at 25 or so, so there may not be anything of real concern. I wouldn't be too worried about bring the temp slowly back down to your ideal and continue on as if nothing happened. Of course, there are plenty of wise heads here with so much more experience than I (Yob, manticle, Florian etc etc etc) that I'm not going to contradict their advice.

 

[manticle]

Our advice is similar to yours.

 

[manticle]

PS: yob hasn't posted in this thread.

 

[Bbowzky1]

Yeah ambiant would have been at least 10,12,14c less and i didnt wake up till 9-10 ish. So i recon the 28 wouldnt have been max it would have reached. Its coming down nicely. About 22 ish now. I just tried some that i cc'd in the fridge and its not as bad as id thought once the temp came down.
Its still very yeasty and has definite sulfury aroma. All in all tho not as good as last taste but not as bad as id thought.
Ill keep on keeping on with it.
Maybe time for a ferm fridge

 

[manticle]

If you want to do lagers properly then a ferm fridge is definitely worthwhile. I used workarounds for years and it definitely can be done (I still use those methods for various beers) but temp fridge makes things way easier and more predictable.

 

[Bbowzky1]

Yeah was just doing some largers as its easy atm without a fridge down in Melbourne. And im finding a few towels and inside is quite good for ales but yeah your right theres no constant so brews are different bactch to batch.
Next time i can pick up a free fridge ill make it a ferm fridge. The missus will crack it tho cause more electrickery

 

[manticle]

With a proper temp controller, the power it uses is minimal. Only comes on if temp pushes out - otherwise it's basically insulation.

 

[manticle]

PS : lager not larger

 

[Bbowzky1]

With a proper temp controller, the power it uses is minimal. Only comes on if temp pushes out - otherwise it's basically insulation.

Ill work on it. Probably install a ceramic heat lamp into a bar fridge/freezer and use an STC 1000.
Just gotta find a free fridge

 

[Weizguy]

I agree that the diacetyl rest is probably finished. Can you taste any butterscotch flavours in the beer?

I find that if the W2278 yeast has an excessively warm ferment, you can make a nice pineapple flavoured lager, but the yeast will correct it, given enough time.

+1 for the fridge/insulated temperature-controlled fermentation cabinet.