Other Yeasts For Cider?

[drsmurto]

I'm not sure why people have an aversion to using a cider yeast in a cider..... <_<

The seppo experiment used real apples, and a combination of varieties so his results are relevant ONLY to his particular blend(s). Note also that he made dry cider (FG 1.002 - 1.010)

FWIW, i have used Wyeast 4766 (cider) in several ciders using both store bought apple juice and fresh apple juice from a combination of apple varieties and find that yes, it finishes relatively dry (1.000 - 1.010) but retains the apple flavour and aroma. IMO, ale yeasts strip the apple flavour/aroma

About the only way to get a sweet cider (other than using lactose which isn't actually as sweet as people think) is to back sweeten. And this will only work if you keg or like to be kept on your toes with bottle bombs. :lol:

I found that for mates who prefer sweet ciders, a dash of lemonade when serving does the trick. Or sparkling apple juice.

IMO, the french, in particular the Bretons, make the best cider. Its wild fermented at very low temps such that primary fermentation takes months. (Its the reason i grafted my apple trees last year with french cider varieties. As it turns out, i brew better than i graft as they are failed to strike)

But thats just my opinion. :icon_cheers:

 

[jonocarroll]

About the only way to get a sweet cider (other than using lactose which isn't actually as sweet as people think) is to back sweeten. And this will only work if you keg or like to be kept on your toes with bottle bombs. :lol:

IMO, the french, in particular the Bretons, make the best cider. Its wild fermented at very low temps such that primary fermentation takes months. (Its the reason i grafted my apple trees last year with french cider varieties. As it turns out, i brew better than i graft as they are failed to strike)

Don't forget, as manticle mentioned - keeving. The Normandy method involves the slow, wild-yeast ferment, but uses calcium chloride to help the pectin form a gel and drop out, removing some vital nutrients, so the yeast stop working, and you get a sweet, clear cider. Nowdays you can add artificial pectin-methyl-esterase (PME) enzyme to guarantee the pectin gel forms. I did this a couple of months ago and it's now in bottles for several more months. Very much looking forward to this one.

Just putting the info out there.

 

[brettprevans]

you could always add some xxx (cant think of the name) but basicly it kills the yeast. you can easily back sweeten without worry of bottle bombs. they use it in mead etc. Brewerpete or airghead will know what its called. i'll have a look in my mead book when i get home.

 

[tcraig20]

I'm not sure why people have an aversion to using a cider yeast in a cider..... <_<

Probably the lack of dried cider yeast. As a wild generalisation, I'd say most people first want to make cider early on in their brewing career, when they are still usings kits and dried yeast for beer. They havent used liquid yeasts before (which can be intimidating first time round), and arent really ready to start.

 

[tcraig20]

you could always add some xxx (cant think of the name) but basicly it kills the yeast. you can easily back sweeten without worry of bottle bombs. they use it in mead etc. Brewerpete or airghead will know what its called. i'll have a look in my mead book when i get home.

Campden?

 

[brettprevans]

not what i was trhinking of no. but campden could work. although some people are allergic to the sulfer compunds found in campden tablets.

 

[tdh]

Potassium sorbate?

tdh

 

[jonocarroll]

you could always add some xxx (cant think of the name) but basicly it kills the yeast. you can easily back sweeten without worry of bottle bombs. they use it in mead etc. Brewerpete or airghead will know what its called. i'll have a look in my mead book when i get home.

Campden?

This is fine, as long as you're kegging, but in that case you could just crash chill anyway. With bottling, there's no way to get it carbed back up if you kill the yeast completely.

 

[Airgead]

not what i was trhinking of no. but campden could work. although some people are allergic to the sulfer compunds found in campden tablets.

I think you are thinking of Potassium Sorbate.

You really need a combination of soabate and campden to really do the job. Sterile filtering is another way. So is pasteurisation.

I can't use campden as the missus is one of those allergic people so I keg and back sweeten if I need to. I just back sweetened my last batch with honey. Very nice it is too.

Cheers
Dave

 

[HoppingMad]

This is fine, as long as you're kegging, but in that case you could just crash chill anyway. With bottling, there's no way to get it carbed back up if you kill the yeast completely.

Most of the Seppo forums I've delved into recommend cold crashing.

 

[Sammus]

you could always add some xxx (cant think of the name) but basicly it kills the yeast. you can easily back sweeten without worry of bottle bombs. they use it in mead etc. Brewerpete or airghead will know what its called. i'll have a look in my mead book when i get home.

Chlorine?

 

[Airgead]

Most of the Seppo forums I've delved into recommend cold crashing.

Cold crashing will indeed stop fermentation. It will even drop it clear really quickly. But it won't kill the yeast and the fact that it has dropped clear doesn't mean there isn't still yeast in suspension. There is just less of it (up to 1000000 cells/ml will still be crystal clear if I remember correctly).

If you then add sugar and it gets warm fermentation will re-start. If you want to bottle with residual sugar you better make sure there is no live yeast at all in there.

Cheers
Dave

 

[jonocarroll]

If you want to bottle with residual sugar you better make sure there is no live yeast at all in there.

And make sure you enjoy drinking still (not sparkling) cider... :unsure:

 

[Airgead]

And make sure you enjoy drinking still (not sparkling) cider... :unsure:

That too. <_<

Either that or learn to enjoy having your flesh lacerated by exploding glass... h34r:

 

[jonocarroll]

That too. <_<

Either that or learn to enjoy having your flesh lacerated by exploding glass... h34r:

Or, as mentioned several times, try keeving. Mines in bottles at the moment, and I'm still un-lacerated.

Pasteurising is also an option, albeit one that I mention with caution. You do risk both bottle bombs and cooked apple flavours.

 

[Airgead]

Or, as mentioned several times, try keeving. Mines in bottles at the moment, and I'm still un-lacerated.

Pasteurising is also an option, albeit one that I mention with caution. You do risk both bottle bombs and cooked apple flavours.

You're right. I've been looking into that keeving thing and it looks interesting. I might give it a go next batch and see what happens. Mind you, it pretty much requires (from what I have read) that you start from fresh juice. I'm not sure it can be applied to shop bought which I think most of the posters here are using.

Pasteurisation - yeah. Unless you have the right kit for flash pasteurisation it can go wrong in so many ways.

Cheers
Dave

 

[brettprevans]

I think you are thinking of Potassium Sorbate.
Dave

possible. i thought it had another name.

Chlorine?

eeeewww. yuk. no.

This is fine, as long as you're kegging, With bottling, there's no way to get it carbed back up if you kill the yeast completely.

Good point. although my still cider tastes pretty ghood. i dont mind the still or carbed versions. but yes a problem if you want bottled and carbed cider.


EDIT: yup pot sorbate. - prevents the yeast from budding, and therefore prevents a colony from growing - it merely inhibits renewed yeast activity under the correct conditions. way of preventing bottle refermentation is to add potassium sorbate (sorbate) before bottling.

 

[Sammus]

eeeewww. yuk. no.

:lol: I kid, I kid. Was hoping you'd pick up on it too

 

[Airgead]

but yes a problem if you want bottled and carbed cider.

Unless you force carb in a keg then transfer to bottles...

Cheers
Dave