Lager Yeasts And Strain Character

[Tony]

I have been doing a lot of thinking about lager yeasts. Im mainly an ale boy but i really want to get into lagers this summer. Im rid of the infections and on top of volumes for now so time to do some lagering.

Now i have tried many many different ale yeasts and i can always pick the different flavour impact they have on the beer. They usually have a fair impact on the beers mouth feel as well. YEasts like 1318 leave the beer very soft and lamost flight and fluffy to me while yeasts like 1275 leave it crisp and short in the finnish. Both are very similar in specs but very different in the glass!

I bought a 6er of Erquelle to drink with my dad today for fathers day. I was analysing it (as you do) and thought to myself, this shouldnt be to hard to brew.

I know a lot of folks have tried and most say that its nigh on imposible to replicate but it doesnt seem that overly complex. Pilsner malt maybe something to up maltiness, lots of saaz in the boil and not a real lot late (a mistake I, and im sure others have made brewing it like an APA) and a good yeast.

This is where i really started thinking. They use 3 different yeasts and blend the beer, tripple decoctions, 4 hr slow boils ect ect. The decoction i can do (but wont), the boil i can do (but faster) and the yeast...........mmmmmmm

I have been using WLP833 german bock yeast a lot latly and have used it for years........ because i can brew a wide range of beers with it. I find it has the best of both worlds.......... it acentuates malt character leaving the beer with a malty finish but acentuates the hops too, even lightly hopped lagers have a plesant hop aroma. It attenuated well........ been getting 80% attenuation, and drops out when done like lead!

I brew Classic American Pilsners, Oktoberfest, Schwarzbier, Helles, Vienna lagers, Dunkel, all are great!

If i mash hotter, up around 67 to 68 the beer comes out sweeter and lower attenuated. If i mash cooler i get 80 to 85% attenuation and a crisp pilsner like beer in the mouth but with a maltiness to back it up................ what does that sound like??????????

I am seriously thinking i can use German bock yeast to brew a Chech Pils. IT crisp in the finnish, leaves the beer malty in the mouth, accentuates the hops and is clean as buggery.

Im going to give it a go. I have Bohemien pils malt, i have almost a kg of saaz, i have yeast and i have an empty fermenter!

Would love to hear peoples comments, ideas, criticism ect on this.

cheers

 

[matti]

All I would say about trying to brew an Urquel clone is, (I have never managed myself yet and don't have any hopes of replicating it in near future)

Use the softest water possible with leastest amout of buffer in for the mash.
If you use 100 % bohemian malts do quick
protein rest at 55 10 min
raise to 63 either by infusion or decoction no more the 20 min
decoction to 67-68 40 min
Mash out

Don't over do the beta conversion
Or just mash at 67 with any good pils malt with 3-5% melaniodan or something like that.

Saaz 60
Sazz 40
Saaz 20

Saaz flame out

Absolutely no chill

One day I'll have a go at it myself when i find 10 hour to brew LOL

Bock yeast hmmmm try it and report back.

 

[Tony]

YEah recipe is not the problem..... very close to what you were saying. Dont like Melanoiden though. Its the rubber vagina of brewing IMO.

More interested in the yeast........... and peoples thought as such

cheers

 

[matti]

Urquell yeast accentuate the citrus in the saaz.
I think bock yeast is a maltier balanced end product.

 

[razz]

YEah recipe is not the problem..... very close to what you were saying. Dont like Melanoiden though. Its the rubber vagina of brewing IMO.

More interested in the yeast........... and peoples thought as such

cheers

Just realized I have kilo of Melanoidin for sale, any takers.....anyone !

 

[Tony]

Yes it is maltier but the 833 is good for hops too. I just kegged a CAP last night and it only had minimal hops. I used Saphire FWH and some at flame out. Cluster to bitter. It has the most wonderful hop aroma.

After using 2206 it kills the hops. great for the malt but hops magicly disapear.

HAs anyone else used the 833?

What effect did it have on hops in the beer?

cheers

 

[MichaelPlum]

After using 2206 it kills the hops. great for the malt but hops magicly disapear.

Hi-Ho,


I absolutely second that experience! I have had best hop results by using the 2042 strain from Wyeast. Not any fruity touch, crisp, malty (but not too much) finish with accentuation on the hops. Great, it`s worth trying, Guys.

Cheers

Michael

 

[therook]

Yes it is maltier but the 833 is good for hops too. I just kegged a CAP last night and it only had minimal hops. I used Saphire FWH and some at flame out. Cluster to bitter. It has the most wonderful hop aroma.

After using 2206 it kills the hops. great for the malt but hops magicly disapear.

HAs anyone else used the 833?

What effect did it have on hops in the beer?

cheers

Tony,

Talk to TDA he swears by this yeast, he sent me some to try in an Octoberfest

Rook

 

[kabooby]

I have used 833 in a Bock and a Vienna lager, neither of which have much hop character as these styles shouldn't.

I do find that it gives a good balance and is drinkable early compared to some other lager strains.

While I think it will produce a good beer I am not sure that it will deliver the crispness that you would expect from a pilsner

I have never tried it though and think it would be worth the experiment

Kabooby

 

[drsmurto]

Wyeast 2000 Budvar.

Works so well in a simple bo pils.

1st time did 100% wey pils, 100% saaz. Went down well last xmas case swap. Have mach 2 of tap - used perle for bittering then saaz and did a single decoction. Mmmmmmalty!

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

Yes it is maltier but the 833 is good for hops too. I just kegged a CAP last night and it only had minimal hops. I used Saphire FWH and some at flame out. Cluster to bitter. It has the most wonderful hop aroma.

After using 2206 it kills the hops. great for the malt but hops magicly disapear.

HAs anyone else used the 833?

What effect did it have on hops in the beer?

cheers

Tony, I use 833 quite a bit but I mainly use in beers such as Helles, Okkys, and Bocks. As you know these beers are all on the lower side in hop bitterness and malt driven. The highest I have gone is 28 IBU in a dopplebock and as you would know there should be no discernable hop flavour. In my latest okky I used 90 grams of Hallertauer to give 25 IBU, 20 grams was added late in the boil and I can detect the spicy flavour of these hops.
I reckon it would work well in a PU clone. I know that Pedro of Gulf Brewery has used it in some of his pilsners and the hop bitterness and flavour are present each time I have tasted them.

You should give it a go mate and let everyone know what the resultant beer is like. I'm sure it will be a great beer but will it be close to PU???? Who knows.

C&B
TDA

 

[Tony]

YEah i have used the 833 for years. I love the stuff!

I may have got a bit off topic in my own ramblings in this thread too after reading the title. I think i was going to start a discussion on wheather people felt that lager yeasts had similar flavour/character trait differences like ale yeast do and then realised how much i was contradicting myself saying how 2206 killed hop character.

I guess it was all spawned by the CAP i have on tap ATM. its made to Boh Pils specs but less hops and a bit less malt. Its clean, crisp, hoppy and bloody great.

I think i will do it for my next brew on tap after the Oktoberfect it gone.

A side by side with a bottle of the real thing will be a must.


I have a pack of 2007 in the fridge...... i used it many years ago and remember liking it but what it was really like...... i cant really remember.

Might give the 2042 strain a run over summer too.

cheers

 

[kabooby]

I have a Dortmunder conditioning atm that was done with 2042, courtesy of Ham2k. Taste great.
I had the first 20l cube fermented with WLP830, just starting to taste good now after 6 weeks, got about a litre left

Kabooby