Dark Ale + Lager Yeast = Bock?

[shamus]

Just returned from Potters Brewery and loved they're Bock. now being a dark lager, would the Dark Ale kit with a lager yeast work out to be the same style or am I way off track?

 

[floppinab]

Hi,
Others may correct me here, but a simple Dark Ale kit + lager would more closely resemble a Dunkel/Dark Lager, the "lighter" of the dark lager styles. A bock will be heavier with malt content and a higher OG/alc beer. You could chuck in 0.5... maybe up to 0.75kg of Medium DME or LME in addition to your usual kilo additions plus a little Cara or maybe Carafa if you can get some grain in there to approach one of the Bock styles.

 

[Adamt]

A dark ale kit is way too dark for a bock I would think.

Best bet would be to use an amber ale kit of some description, no sugar, and do a mini mash with about 300g melanoidin and at least the same amount of pale or munich malt. You are not going to get that maltiness you need without either a mini-mash or a kit designed for a (good) bock.

Also... you cannot call it a bock unless the OG is > 1.064 (16 plato to be exact), so don't be shy!

 

[Thommo]

Hey Shamus,

If you visit one of our sponsors above, Grain and Grape, they have a really helpful link on their website called Beer of the Moment. When I was doing kits I found it quite helpful for attempting different styles with a kit base.

I've copied the kit bit from Brain Busting Bock below.

"Enhanced Kit Version
Bock is a relatively simple style and readily lends itself to kit brewing.
I suggest starting out, preferably, by purchasing a specific Bock kit, New Zealand’s Black Rock makes one, as does Muntons. ESB makes a Bock wort kit although this one is seasonal. If you are unable to acquire a bock kit then almost any normal lager kit will do fine. As usual I suggest using malt extracts rather than dextrose or sugar, in this case I recommend using a little more than the usual 1kg of light malt extract and increase it to 2kg, (Light extract if using a bock kit, and a mixture of light and amber or dark extract if using a lager kit) this should take care of the alcohol and colour required for a good bock. Fortunately bocks have almost no hop character, so those troublesome aspects of brewing are not a problem when brewing this style.
Follow your usual kit method for the remainder of the brew."

Here's the link to all of Rigger's beers, and for each style he includes a kit version.

Here

 

[RobboMC]

A HBS down the coast has this as a 'recipe pack'

1 can Black Rock Bock
1 can Liquid Amber Malt
1/2 kg Crystal grain for steeping
Saflager yeast

I bought the kit as a present for a brewer, so I'll get a taste when it's made. No idea how it'll turn out.

I'm no expert, but would a dark ale kit with lager yeast and enough added malt be more like a Schwarzbier

 

[shamus]

how about a Coopers Bavarian LAger Kit with 1.5kg Dark malt?

 

[RobboMC]

from the BJCP guidelines:

Bock - Light copper to brown color,often with attractive garnet highlights.

Schwarzbier - Medium to very dark brown in color, often with deep ruby to garnet highlights, yet almost never truly black

So I guess it depends how dark you get it.

I suspect 1.5 kg of Dark malt would tend to be too dark for a Bock, I'm gonna try a bavarian lager kit with 1.5 kg of Amber malt and 250gm of Dark.

You're probably would need some Munich or Caravienna
steeped in to get some complexity with the lager kit. I assume Black Rock already have a bit of this in their Bock.

And shamus is still at least a full kg short on fermentables. You need over 4 kg in 20-odd litres for a real Bock.

Coopers web site suggests a twocan of 2 bavarian lager kits, not a bad idea.

In either case who cares what it should be called; at least it will be a damn side better beer than VB. Stuff the style police, just make good beer!