Yeast Starter.... Not Starting?

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So what happened with the starter?
Well following on from some advice via pm I let it finish out as is and put it into the fridge.
I then used the other three 25ml vials and pitched into a 1.8 litre starter. Put it on the stir plate for 12 hours and it's now got a nice big krausen on top.
 
sorry? did you use the "calculate viability from date" thingamy? No u'king way it's at 95% viability at 1 month...

er.. unless I misunderstood something coz Ive 'ad a few..

'king pool night ya know... 'tuedy's te nu friday ya know... mumble mumble..

Just saw this question of yours Yob and thought I should explain should anyone read this post for future reference.

I had already used the "calculate viability by date" option in Mr Malty when working out that I required a 163ml starter which would give me 167 billion cells. So to make it easier I just made this a 1:1 ratio of 1 billion cells per ml. So in yeast calc I entered 25 billion cells for my 25ml vial size and set the viability to 95% just to give me a few extra billion cells for good luck.

I didnt end up brewing last week at all when I wanted to and have had this starter sitting in the fridge since last Thursday in a foil covered flask. It has a layer of yeast on the bottom (about 10mm) but still a lot of yeast in the wort in suspension, probably about a 3 inch layer with a small 1/2 inch layer of clearer wort at the top.

I thought that after almost a week in the fridge it would have all dropped right out by now.

Is it still okay to use this starter after a week sitting in the fridge just covered in foil?
 
I made my first yeast starter last night and can't see much action this morning, so I think I may have a problem - figured I'd avoid starting a new thread and just add to this one.

You can see the 'progress' after 8 hours in the attachments below.

Details of starter:

2L water (boiled to 1.5L)
200g DME
~1/16tsp Wyeast nutrient
1 pack of Wyeast liquid yeast (2124)

SG: I didn't expect to lose so much water in the boil, so now the SG is 1.048 (instead of target 1.040).
Pitch temp: Slightly high.. may have been 26°C
Working temp: 21°C temp controlled in fridge.
Flask being constantly stirred @ 800RPM
Yeast manufacture date: 3/12/13 (viability ~26%)

I was expecting some bubbles/frothy stuff - is this reasonable to expect with a stirred starter? If so..
Could the elevated SG and nutrient be too much for the low amount of yeast?
Is the volume too large for that population of yeast?
Is it just moving slowly? Not at all?
Should I buy another pack of yeast to pitch?

Thanks to anyone who can help.

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IMG_0305 (Custom).JPG


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Don't buy another pack yet. I would let it go for at least 24 hours before I started getting worried. Turn the stir bar off for a couple of minutes then tilt the conical flask. If there is activity you should see bubbles rising to surface.

Ideally you should have probably made a smaller starter with lower gravity, but I think it should be fine if you give it a bit of time. Test the S.G. in a couple of days and that will tell you for certain whether the starter has been successful.
 
Ok, thanks mate. I smacked the pack and could definitely hear activity in the bag, so I know there's something there but I'll check the flask too, as you suggest. And I'll wait until tomorrow before I think about buying another yeast pack. Cheers.
 
Mate always do a start and finish gravity.
I use gladrap and a rubber band instead of foil. The glad rap expands, with foil you can't see that.
Decant the beer off the yeast bf pitching if you can (takes another day)once your happy with the gravity.


DSC_0085.JPG

IMO, it's better to do a starter from scratch as you get a very clean yeast cake at the end. Like this. DSC_0091.JPG
 
Just read intire thread.
This is a good one.
Any thread about yeast that Wolfy posts in is worth reading.
 
Thanks Scooby. I was worried about glad wrap + rubber band constricting the gas flow and figured al foil would be sanitary enough so I went with that. I was definitely going to decant the beer off before pitching; I'm stepping up to a 4L starter after this too, so ill decant prior to that pitch also.

What do you mean by doing a starter from scratch?
 
I think your already doing it if I read correctly. Basically I used to use wort to start my "starters". But as I found I wanted to get into farming the yeast as well I now use lite malt extract,I a touch more expensive but the clean yeast cake is what I was after.

As for the Gladrap there is no stopping the gas be shore not to make it super tight. Like.many things everyone has there own way,I use foil on the stove then gladrap on the stirplate.

Horse's fir courses mate.
 
Looked a bit cloudier this arvo.. I guess that's something.

Do stir plates typically eliminate all of the bubbles though? Or is that a sign that yeast activity is low?
 
Most of my starters, especially the first steps, only show a feint krausen ring if one at all. I look for colour change, cloudiness and very fine bubbles.
Only when revitalising a decanted starter do I get an active krausen.
If in doubt take a refractometer reading. If you don't have one, decant a bit and taste it. If it's not sweet, somethings happening.
 
beermeupscotty said:
Looked a bit cloudier this arvo.. I guess that's something.

Do stir plates typically eliminate all of the bubbles though? Or is that a sign that yeast activity is low?
Cloudier is good and is suggestive of growth. Let it go a bit longer and I am sure it will be fine. Good to see you bought a stir plate. My experience is a little different to some in relationship to bubbles being more visible when the stir plate is turned off. I find the opposite i.e. I can see the bubbles better when the stir plate is going because the bubbles are forced to the outside against the glass by the stirring. When I turn off the stir plate I can't see the bubbles.
 
Scooby Tha Newbie said:
attachicon.gif
DSC_0079.JPG

Just thought I would put this up.
Showing the use of rubber bands.
A starter is all about yeast growth and oxygen promotes growth, so I prefer to keep it simple and just place foil loosely on top (and this is what is recommended in most books). Loose foil keeps the bad bugs out, so an airtight seal is really unnecessary and will likely inhibit yeast growth. It also allows CO2 to escape and CO2 is inhibitory to growth.

EDIT: add comment about CO2
 
If I read this correctly you have added a (Smacked & swollen) pack of 2124 to 2000ml of wort at 1.048 + have added a little more nutrient?

As mentioned above, I wouldn't stress too much just yet but wait a little longer & if all goes well you should see condensation forming on the inside of the Erlenmeyer. This is a sure sign of activity & is good news. :)

Perhaps next time consider either adding extra water to allow for boil-off & remember that 1.040 is the maximum (Ideal) starter gravity & you can well make a good starter with wort down to 1.030.
There's no worries upping the temp to 24 deg c to get your starter rolling on either.

Have you ever considered splitting your yeast packs into e.g.. 4 x? This is a good way to save dollars if you're keen?

Must admit that I agree with Black n Tan's post above re no rubber bands.
Just saying.
 
Scooby Tha Newbie said:
Correct; thing is its not air tight.
co2 can and does get out. The reason I posted that was to show healthy yeast growth and therefore the expelling of Co2.
I've used this with packets from June 2012 with success.
P
Black n Tan said:
A starter is all about yeast growth and oxygen promotes growth, so I prefer to keep it simple and just place foil loosely on top (and this is what is recommended in most books). Loose foil keeps the bad bugs out, so an airtight seal is really unnecessary and will likely inhibit yeast growth. It also allows CO2 to escape and CO2 is inhibitory to growth.

EDIT: add comment about CO2
Correct; thing is its not air tight.
co2 can and does get out. The reason I posted that was to show healthy yeast growth and therefore the expelling of Co2.
I've used this with packets from June 2012 with success.
P

DSC_0099.JPG

Three "starters" from two packets. The rest are for later use. DSC_0099.JPG
 
Thanks for the clarification but I just want to make sure that people that see that picture understand it is unnecessary and would restrict gas exchange, so is not best practice. :)
 
I'm a big fan of the tin foil for starters. From what I've read a loose fit lets the CO2 out yet can still allow O2 in. Like B&T states, this is advantageous to the yeast. Sounds like this bloke had it sussed.
 
The last thing you want is a "exchange" of gases.
CO2 needs to be able to expell. I chill my "starters" so I can harvest the yeast as this happens there is a intake of gases.
At this stage it's important not to allow any intake of unsanitary air.
Each to his own,but this is best practice in my setup.
Plus I get to see gas being produced so don't.need to worry about if it's working or not ;)
 

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