Yeast Of The Week 21/4/09 - Kolsch - Wlp029/wyeast 2565

[Stuster]

So after a few requests (and a bit of procrastination), I thought we could skip from Style of the Week to Yeast of the Week (partly because there aren't that many styles left to cover). The idea is that we look at some of the great yeasts out there (liquid and dry), people can vote on if they like the yeast and discuss how they use the things. This week I've chosen the Kolsch yeasts from the two big liquid boys as these are yeasts that might be pretty versatile, but ones that maybe not everyone has used before.

What styles do you use it in, what styles does it just not work for?
Any tricks for how to manage it - fermentation temperatures, starter sizes, re-using it by top-cropping or using the slurry, does it need rousing or will it conk out in high gravity beers?
There may be some difference between the two supposedly comparable yeasts so if you've used both then what differences did you notice and which one would you prefer for what?
Anything else you like or dislike about this yeast?

Anyway, hopefully something of interest and a thread people can look back at when they are thinking of using a new yeast. :icon_cheers:



Edit: Just links to the White Labs yeast here and the Wyeast one here. The White Labs page has a lot of info on the style, including an audio segment by Chris White on this strain.

 

[newguy]

2565 is essential for a good kolsch. It also makes a fantastic IPA or IIPA. Keep the fermentation temperature relatively low (approx 18C max) and it won't give many esters, if any. It will give a very low vinous quality which is hard to pick out, but very good in a kolsch. The only drawback is that it won't flocculate at all - only a long period of cold storage (6-8 weeks+) will drop it out of your beer. This helps give the high attenuation necessary for a good kolsch, which tends to accentuate hops.

I've personally never used 029 but a friend made a kolsch with it and I thought it was gross. It smelled like cheap perfume - very floral - like an old lady would wear. The beer did very well at one competition (took BOS actually) but at another comp a month later it didn't even medal. It seems as though it's very much a love it or hate it yeast.

 

[petesbrew]

I used 029 just over a year ago in my first partial, an alt. Smelt really foul (the rotten egg smell) when brewing. I was a bit worried, but it turned out great.
Went to use it again the other week in a quick knk schwarzbier, but the starter took to long to kick off. Still, I've got it in the fridge waiting for another day.

 

[mje1980]

I used the 2565 a while ago in a kolsch . Was very very good. Would use it again.

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Used both without really spotting any difference. The truth with Kolsch yeast is not the variety but how you treat it. It needs a longish cold lager time to clear up brew and optimal fermentation control. When done right, kolsch is my favourite clear ale.

The current issue of BYO has a good article on Kolsch and is a simple introductory read on the style for noobies.

 

[Stuster]

Bumping this up again for the afternoon traffic.

I've used the White Labs one in a couple of beers. Seemed to work ok for me in an APA as a clean yeast with reasonable attenuation.

 

[Josh]

I've used the WLP029 in a kolsch. I was sharing with 2 guys last year and the kolsch seemed to go the quickest on tap. I fermented around 16C from memory. Didn't have any attenuation problems.

 

[Duff]

I love 029, and have used it in Kolsch, APA, IPA, Alt and Firkin Bolter. Am also going to try in a pseudo Czech Pilsener as the attenuation (normally over 80%) should provide a nice crisp beer. I figure if 810 San Francisco lager can be fermented up to 18C, then 029 should provide just as good, if not better, result. Very versatile yeast.

I've tried three smack packs now of 2565 and all have failed (poor result in general). Don't know why as the starters have been the same as when using 029 (all grain). Will stick to the trusted White Labs.

Cheers.

 

[Steve]

Doing a double batch of Koelsch on Sunday with WLP029. 90% Pils, 10% Wheat, Perle for bittering, hallertaue for flavour and aroma. Will let you know how it goes. Looking forward to brewing my first Koelsch!
Cheers
Steve

 

[wobbly]

My one and only experience with Wyeast 2565 was my latest brew It started out with an OG of 1050 and around 25 lt into a 30 lt fermenter the starter was a health 2 lt (making 27lt in the fermenter) after about 36 hours it was a gusher and I lost most of the yeast out through the air lock. After a week at 15C when I racked it to secondary it had only dropped to 1023 after a further 5 days it was only down to around 1020 so I pitched a further around half a cup of 2565 yeast harvested from some one elses batch and fermentation has kicked in again. Will leave it until mid next week and see what the SG is down to before cubing and cold chilling for a few weeks.
So my experience is make sure you don't over fill the fermenter otherwise you run the risk of a gusher and loosing a significant amount of the top cropping yeast leading to a stuck fermentation

 

[Fents]

I've used 2565 twice for kolsch's. First was a starter from Quinterx (Biggups Q!) for a case swap but i did not treat it right. No ferm control and i left it in primary to long.

Second go was not long ago i brewed another batch now with a tempmate + fridge @ 16c, raised to 18c for last two days i belive it was one of the best beers i;d made to date. Put the keg on for my 30th and as soon as everyone worked out which fridge the BEST beer (kolsch) was coming from it got hammerd.

IMO quintrex has made the best kolsch i've ever tasted he brought over a longneck one night (way before my first two attempts even), i'll never forget it, i fell in love with kolsch that night for the first time. kinda like when you find the right lady and that first awsome orgasm...you never forget it.

edit - really only problem is it never flocs well and takes forver to become clear which with a kolsch imo is essential...gelatine that bad bwoy.

 

[mika]

Last time I used 2565 I was terribly unimpressed and haven't bothered to brew a Kolsch style since. It was clean and what have you, but just came thru as very bland and unexciting. Someone released a Kolsch II yeast and I heard that it was a lot better, but I think it was a VSS release and I missed out.

 

[Barry]

I normally use Whitelabs but I use Wyeast 2565 for a Kolsch and their Scottish yeast for Scottish beers.

 

[DennisKing]

Whitelabs man myself. Had a few failures with Wyeast. Now using Whitelabs Essex which is the area of the UK that I live. It is supposed to be from the now closed Ridleys brewery. First one ready in a few weeks.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I love the 2565 (never used the other one) - but I find that I hate almost every micro brewed kolsch I ever try, because they aren't clear. The kolsch yeast dont floc out - and I find that they have a very distinctive taste when left in suspension. Vomit. They taste like yeasty vomit. I assume that they haven't all been the same strain, so I reckon its common to Kolsch strains not just the 2565 (it certainly holds for the 2575 KoschII)

If the beer is fined or lagered or filtered etc and its crystal clear - then its a lovely lightly malty, lightly fruity, dry easy drinking beer and the mild yeast derived vinous characters are right up my alley. If there is any yeast left in it... it tastes like spew in a glass.

Great yeast - make sure none of it is left in the beer though.

 

[raven19]

I used the 2565 a while ago in a kolsch . Was very very good. Would use it again.

I have gelatined the secondary, and used 2565 in a Kolsch. Tasty out of the fermentor already... :chug:

 

[Keith the Beer Guy]

I love the Wyeast 2565. We use this at work (Hunter Beer Co. @Potters) for a couple of our beers.

It is an amazing yeast that literally can climb out of the fermenter. It usually ferments out very quickly if the yeast is in good shape - three days (two if the stars are in alignment) 1040-2 to 1006.

We ferment at 16C.

We harvest the yeast from our cones after crash chilling and nowadays use this yeast for about 8 generations.

The Koelsch yeast is notorious for poor flocculation. I find that good processing is the key to overcoming this hassle; crash chilling followed by some nice hard cold conditioning in our dish bottom conditioning tanks (it doesn't work as well in the conical uni-tanks).

The flavours that I find come through include a gentle tropical fruit salad character (maybe with a hint of extra pineapple) and a light honey sweetness. The yeast can also produce a tartness that is more noticeable if the beer is bottled conditioned (with 2565). During cold conditioning a sulfury note in the beer dissipates. An unwanted character that appears infrequently is a red apple aroma probably caused by our in-house processing.

Happy Brewing,

Keith

 

[Benniee]

I thought I would drag up this old thread to see if anyone has experience with the Wyeast 2565 strain and using starters.

I've read a lot about this yeast not flocculating readily - so how do people handle their starters (if they're using one)? I would regularly decant the liquid off the starter before pitching the slurry - but if I do this using my normal procedure (crash chilling for 24 hours or so) then I'm likely to discard a fair portion of the yeast that remain in suspension and only select the more flocculant cells to pitch into my wort.

Anyone have any experience good, bad or otherwise when making a starter for this yeast?

Benniee

 

[jbirbeck]

I"ve used this yeast a bit. Only recently did up a starter though as I have tended to use the yeast cake from a previous batch either from primary or secondary.

The most recent starter I pitched just the slurry having bottled off the 'beer' on top, it was an eight litre starter... it took off like a rocket and has done really well. The beer on top having fermented for the best part of a week was pretty well clear.

I suppose there are two ways to do it, pitch the lot (depending on the starter size) or let it run a bit longer to let it settle a bit more and just pitch the slurry. The starter may not be crystal clear but there is still plenty of yeast in the slurry to get it going. But I wouldn't be pouring off the beer too often as the Kolsch yeast in my experience has that massive krausen full of top yeast that you simply don't want to lose. Don't rush your starter, let it clear a bit (it doesn't take that long) and you'll be find to do just the slurry.

 

[jakester]

This is my first attempt at a Kolsch after having one at Potters brewery so it was good to read that Keith uses the 2565 in his brew (great drop by the way). My starter took a while to go off but now that its in the fermenter at 17 degrees its going nuts. I have never seen so much krausen and it only took off sunday arvo. I've read that its a hard yeast to clear out so my question is, what is the optimum fermenting schedule for this beer and yeast? Usually i primary any beer for 5 days, collect the yeast slurry, then secondary for a week or so, but should i do it different this time? We have a temp. controlled fridge so no problems there. Cheers!