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Spiesy

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Hey AHB Posse.

I've been noticing an "off" smell and taste in a few brews of late, but not all brews... it's reminiscent of tinned apricots/yellow peaches (reminds me of when I worked the lines @ SPC). I can't work out where it's coming from. I've got the same vibe out of a SNPA clone, and an APA. In between, I've brewed a US Brown, and it's not present... so I'm thinking it's something to do with a certain ingredient that's common to both the SNPA clone and the APA, and something I'm doing wrong with it - or just something I'm doing wrong that effects the SNPA or APA.

Common ingredients to both recipe's:
Australian Crystal 140
Australian Dark Crystal
US Cascade (flavour and aroma / dry hop)
US05

Any ideas?

I'm trying to ferment at 18-19 degrees. Measurements confirm that that's what's happening with fermentation.

Usually 7-10 days primary, 1-3 days secondary, crash then keg.

Does US05 exhibit any esters if fermented much warmer than 18? (in case I'm somehow out here).

Any educated help would be greatly appreciated... sucks to have just kegged 19L and found out this flavour is again present, in a new recipe (SNPA clone).

Cheers.
 

glenwal

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My money is on the US-05. How sure are you of the temps (ie. is your thermometer/temp controller calibrated?) or is it possible you actually fermeted lower that what you wanted?
 

kelbygreen

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maybe the cascade??? they will vary from crop to crop and if its a different crop then what you have used before it may well have a different flavour and aroma.
 

donburke

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Hey AHB Posse.

I've been noticing an "off" smell and taste in a few brews of late, but not all brews... it's reminiscent of tinned apricots/yellow peaches (reminds me of when I worked the lines @ SPC). I can't work out where it's coming from. I've got the same vibe out of a SNPA clone, and an APA. In between, I've brewed a US Brown, and it's not present... so I'm thinking it's something to do with a certain ingredient that's common to both the SNPA clone and the APA, and something I'm doing wrong with it - or just something I'm doing wrong that effects the SNPA or APA.

Common ingredients to both recipe's:
Australian Crystal 140
Australian Dark Crystal
US Cascade (flavour and aroma / dry hop)
US05

Any ideas?

I'm trying to ferment at 18-19 degrees. Measurements confirm that that's what's happening with fermentation.

Usually 7-10 days primary, 1-3 days secondary, crash then keg.

Does US05 exhibit any esters if fermented much warmer than 18? (in case I'm somehow out here).

Any educated help would be greatly appreciated... sucks to have just kegged 19L and found out this flavour is again present, in a new recipe (SNPA clone).

Cheers.
is it an overripe fruit taste ?

some hops give me a flavour that resembles your description, especially if a large early addition is used (fwh/and or 90 min addition)
 

browndog

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I regularly ferment with US05 at 20C and it is clean as a whistle. temperature is not the reason for your esters (unless your not reading a true temp of the wort)
 

glenwal

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I regularly ferment with US05 at 20C and it is clean as a whistle. temperature is not the reason for your esters (unless your not reading a true temp of the wort)
US05 seems to act the other way round - it'll be nice at clean around the 20 mark, and give off flavours/esters if used a bit too low (16ish)
 

browndog

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US05 seems to act the other way round - it'll be nice at clean around the 20 mark, and give off flavours/esters if used a bit too low (16ish)
Yes, I thought about that possibility but in 9 years on AHB never heard a question about what the chico strain throws off when fermented at too low a temperature.
 

Bizier

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My money (neither abundant nor smart) is on your pitching rate being too low.

I find less pleasant flavours at very low levels quite often with US05. In some instances it can throw a berry-like ester metabolising hops, which I first heard about on the BN, but I have definitely experienced in my own and other people's homebrew, to me it is like cooked strawberry, like on a pie.
 

Nick JD

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What's your base malt?
 

Spiesy

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My money (neither abundant nor smart) is on your pitching rate being too low.

I find less pleasant flavours at very low levels quite often with US05. In some instances it can throw a berry-like ester metabolising hops, which I first heard about on the BN, but I have definitely experienced in my own and other people's homebrew, to me it is like cooked strawberry, like on a pie.
Pitching rate?

Do you mean the temp of the wort at pitching? Too low?

I'm dropping one sachet into around 21L.
 

Spiesy

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I regularly ferment with US05 at 20C and it is clean as a whistle. temperature is not the reason for your esters (unless your not reading a true temp of the wort)
Strange.

I've got the STC probe stuck to the side of the fermenter, near the top of the wort line, and insulated from the outside. It's set to 19 degrees, +/- 0.6. Fermenter in a (dead) fridge, with heater inside. Melbourne winter is handling chilling duties.
Strip on fermenters have been displaying 18-20 degrees.
Temp checking during gravity samples has revealed beer to be around 1 degree cooler than the probe is picking up, but that could be because I'm drawing from the bottom? Either way... looks like I'm constant, at around 18-20.
 

Spiesy

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is it an overripe fruit taste ?

some hops give me a flavour that resembles your description, especially if a large early addition is used (fwh/and or 90 min addition)
Certainly is overripe. Used quite a lot of the same Cascade is the US Brown, and didn't get any of this flavour/taste though...

Using Cascade pellets recently acquired from Yakima - in both the SNPA and APA, they are only used from 5mins on, and dry hopped.
 

beerdrinkingbob

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is it a nice flavour?


If it's not offensive my bet is the cascade like others have said
 

browndog

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Here is what the BJCP beer fault guide has to say about strawberry type flavours


Estery Fruity (strawberry, pear, banana, apple, grape, citrus)

Lower fermentation temperature. Try a cleaner yeast strain. Oxygenate wort sufficiently. Reduce original gravity.
Check hop variety for fruity characteristics. Avoid carrying over excessive break into fermenter. Pitch a sufficient
quantity of yeast (avoid yeast stress). Bottle condition and age beer longer at cellar temperatures to reduce esters

I'd be very surprised if cascade threw strawberry notes.
 

chunckious

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I'm noticing a tartyness in relation to hop taste as of late.
I believe that it has to do with how yeast can effect hop profile.
I never noticed in my earlier brews, but the brews of late are of a higher gravity and more late hoppage.
Have found that longer conditioning time eliminates the taste. 6/7 weeks seems to be mark for these 6-7% beers.
My experiences.
 

Spiesy

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Here is what the BJCP beer fault guide has to say about strawberry type flavours


Estery Fruity (strawberry, pear, banana, apple, grape, citrus)

Lower fermentation temperature. Try a cleaner yeast strain. Oxygenate wort sufficiently. Reduce original gravity.
Check hop variety for fruity characteristics. Avoid carrying over excessive break into fermenter. Pitch a sufficient
quantity of yeast (avoid yeast stress). Bottle condition and age beer longer at cellar temperatures to reduce esters

I'd be very surprised if cascade threw strawberry notes.
Not really strawberry mate. Overripe fruit, yes, strawberry - no. Reminds me of tinned apricot or yellow peaches...
 

Spiesy

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is it a nice flavour?


If it's not offensive my bet is the cascade like others have said
It's certainly drinkable, but it has no place being in my APA, or especially in my SNPA clone.

Also, to add. These are not my recipe's, myself and others have done them before on a different rig (and my rig once before), without this phantom taste/smell. The APA is a fantastic beer, when the result is as it should be.
 

philski

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It sounds like a fermentation temp/ ester problem.

If you have the probe in the fermenter the heater may be working overtime to get the temp up. It's been freezing here in Melbourne the last few weeks so it's prob going flat knacker. This may mean the outside temp around the fermenter inside the fridge is actually quite high, say above 22 deg. Then as the liquid has a high latent heat capacity it will take a while to heat up. Once it reaches temp the heater will switch off and then again it will take a while for the liquid to drop down a degree till the heater kicks in again. It will probably get down to outside temp of 6 deg or whatever as the fridge wouldn't hold the heat too well overnight. Then the heater kicks in and it gets really hot.

So.... If that made any sense what I'm getting at is the fridge temp may be fluctuating a fair bit, meaning the outside part of the fermenter may be experiencing this and resulting in off flavours. MAYBE.

You could try fermenting one inside in a cupboard or something. If you are using us05 it works down to about 15 so should be ok inside overnight still. It may mean you get a more constant ambient temp. Or try using a probe in the fridge not the fermenter.

Strange.

I've got the STC probe stuck to the side of the fermenter, near the top of the wort line, and insulated from the outside. It's set to 19 degrees, +/- 0.6. Fermenter in a (dead) fridge, with heater inside. Melbourne winter is handling chilling duties.
Strip on fermenters have been displaying 18-20 degrees.
Temp checking during gravity samples has revealed beer to be around 1 degree cooler than the probe is picking up, but that could be because I'm drawing from the bottom? Either way... looks like I'm constant, at around 18-20.
 

Dazza88

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pitch at 16 and raise slowly to 18 over first few days next brew.

you might have to change one variable per brew to find the problem maybe?
 

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