Would You Pay For Ag Tutoring

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dicko

Boston Bay Brewery
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I was going to post this in the Retailers thread under the topic which offered AG training for a fee but in all fairness I decided to start a new topic and I hope any one concerned or interested may be able to link this topic to the retailers offer.

During my visits to JM's shop in my early days of AG brewing I found his stock to be good and his staff to be helpful and his commitment to host brew days during his own time on a Saturday quite commendable, however,
I attended an AG brew many years ago at JM's shop with a few other fellow brewers and although I didn't know a lot about brewing in those days I personally thought that the whole day was poorly organised with mash temps not met to any accuracy, equipment that was in my opinion, poor quality with little chance of demonstrating the accuracy to achieve the required mash profile for the specified beer.
If he has upgraded his equipment and his methods and can follow "strike temp" and "water needed" calculations to any real degree of accuracy then he may just be able to demo the practical side of AG brewing.
My day at his demo cost me a cab fare back to the western suburbs shared with a visiting brewer from interstate, and I thought that , that was expensive, considering what we "learned"
.
Off on a tangent, I was invited by Jayse to his place to "watch" him brew a "Skunk Fart PA" when I was first entering the realm of AG and I learned many details of AG which were invaluable to me just starting out. I actually went to Jayse's, TDA's, Chillers, Goliath Dave's, to watch a few brews before I got right into it and learned heaps.

At that time, guys came from interstate to attend these brew days as well, when they could.

One may ask "so whats the point".?

First up, it cost nothing. well be it for a few beers or a few snags for the BBQ.
Well, as others have stated there is always other brewers willing to "teach" or at least host a brew day at their home or shop, on their rig, with quite often proven experience with comp results and successful brews.
If I was going to throw any money at "coaching or tutoring" I would save my money and have a look at local brewers first. There is a lot more people in AG now than there was in 2004.
Don't be afraid to ask about brew days if you are new as long as you respect the fact that you are generally in someone else's house and that you have been invited.
Since then, there are also classes available that delve into all the aspects of brewing at our level including yeast management, fermentation,
storage and bottling.
Making a decision to pay for brewing tutoring and learning AG is like buying brewing equipment, you can invest wisely and buy it once or you may buy bits only to replace them later or regret the original purchase, but in the end the decision is entirely yours.

So ask around, have a look and you will find most people want to help, try to talk to as many people as you can on this incredible subject and when all else fails then do some reading :lol:

Cheers
 
Buggar it !!

I just put the link to this post to the retailers post.

Unless JM can supply some form of qualification I can not agree with any who may consider his offer.

Cheers
 
Buggar it !!

I just put the link to this post to the retailers post.

Unless JM can supply some form of qualification I can not agree with any who may consider his offer.

Cheers

Seriously, paying to be shown how to use an esky, and a boiler??. joining your local brew club would teach more than money could buy IMHO
 
If home brewing is as far as you want to take it, then **** no, I woldnt suggest anyone pay for the knowledge. It's all on the Internet you see
 
If home brewing is as far as you want to take it, then **** no, I woldnt suggest anyone pay for the knowledge. It's all on the Internet you see

Yes, and if you only believed a quarter of it you would be doing well as long as you sort it out.
Book reference is still a good source, but you cant beat a brew day with a few keen brewers.

Cheers
 
No. I know how to make AG beer.

If I didn't, I might if there was no other way. Would depend then on what was included in the package.
It's up to the retailer to sell it to me and up to me to make my mind up based on what I want and where I am at the time in terms of brewing.

Realistically, the only time I can see myself paying for brewing knowledge besides buying books is enrolling in a proper brewing science course so I can talk about phytase with MHB.

However a retailer has the right to offer their own product for their own price. It's my responsibility to decide if I think it's worth it and theirs to sell it as best they can.
 
This hobby has so many followers that are only too happy to show others how to brew, and there's much generosity amongst the troops. While for some people internet teks & tips might be a bit confusing, it should be appreciated that the hands-on teaching is valuable.

Without wishing to take away others' attempts to turn over a buck, new AG brewers should consider sending a shout out to people in their area, and if you get an invitation, take over a couple of quality micro or euro 6-packs and a few steaks to your willing mentor. It'll cost you $70, but you'll walk away with a new friendship forged in the bubbling cauldron of wort, you get to eat and drink half of your tutoring fee, and you might even walk away with a few other beers to take home with you.

Or just jump in yourself, armed with an abundance of others' knowledge at your fingertips, by way of sites such as AHB or TBN. Be confident in your own abilities to work it out. While many brewers make the first step into AG with some trepidation, worries and fears, the resounding message after the first few brews is "Gee, it wasn't that hard after all". To start out, try and deconstruct the process for yourselves, go through the motions at first even if you don't know the science behind it. The technical knowledge can be learned as you proceed.

At it's core, AG brewing is simply this: steep some base & specialty grains at a set temperature, run off the wort, flush the grains out again with more water, run off again, then boil the liquid, adding hops at set times along the way. Have a hydrometer handy, take a reading at the end, and if you are off target significantly, add some dried malt, or some more water. Learn to read a recipe, and that will guide you to a drinkable beer. Most of all, just relax, and enjoy the learning process. With every new brew, you will learn more about your system.
 
Nope..

A gazillion variable's aside, if you cant follow old mates basic guide to AG brewing, then you should probably be kept away from sharp objects.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This hobby has so many followers that are only too happy to show others how to brew, and there's much generosity amongst the troops. While for some people internet teks & tips might be a bit confusing, it should be appreciated that the hands-on teaching is valuable.


Can't agree enough with this. I really agree with the second point. Watching someone brew makes 10 0000000000000 times more sense than reading ( for me it did anyway ). I had a good idea of what to do when i started, but going along to a Big Brew Day back in 04 sealed the deal completely. Few weeks later off i went. Funny thing is, my equipment is pretty much the same now as it was then ( except for a bigger mash tun, oh and a keggle ).

I think sometimes beginners here get bombarded with overly complex techniques, where they would probably be better off with the basics first. My .02c.
 
Although I work in IT, I work for an educational institute. I was approached with the idea of running an AG course. At first I though why not. The more I looked at it the more I thought against it.

Up here if anyone queries the idea of AG, the first response is "we will organise a brew day". So really the only people you would get into the course would be people who don't have contacts and have not googled for any info and found sites like AHB. Then if I was to teach any form of brewing that would produce decent constistent beer, then there would be a couple of hundred setup cost on top of this. Allow the course would most likely need to be charged out at a couple of hunddred as well it would scare a lot of the locals away. Needless to say, I was not prepared to build up a full course plan to see if the course could proceed.

QldKev
 
This hobby has so many followers that are only too happy to show others how to brew, and there's much generosity amongst the troops. While for some people internet teks & tips might be a bit confusing, it should be appreciated that the hands-on teaching is valuable.

Without wishing to take away others' attempts to turn over a buck, new AG brewers should consider sending a shout out to people in their area, and if you get an invitation, take over a couple of quality micro or euro 6-packs and a few steaks to your willing mentor. It'll cost you $70, but you'll walk away with a new friendship forged in the bubbling cauldron of wort, you get to eat and drink half of your tutoring fee, and you might even walk away with a few other beers to take home with you.

Or just jump in yourself, armed with an abundance of others' knowledge at your fingertips, by way of sites such as AHB or TBN. Be confident in your own abilities to work it out. While many brewers make the first step into AG with some trepidation, worries and fears, the resounding message after the first few brews is "Gee, it wasn't that hard after all". To start out, try and deconstruct the process for yourselves, go through the motions at first even if you don't know the science behind it. The technical knowledge can be learned as you proceed.

At it's core, AG brewing is simply this: steep some base & specialty grains at a set temperature, run off the wort, flush the grains out again with more water, run off again, then boil the liquid, adding hops at set times along the way. Have a hydrometer handy, take a reading at the end, and if you are off target significantly, add some dried malt, or some more water. Learn to read a recipe, and that will guide you to a drinkable beer. Most of all, just relax, and enjoy the learning process. With every new brew, you will learn more about your system.

^ Superb post this one

This hobby has so many followers that are only too happy to show others how to brew, and there's much generosity amongst the troops. While for some people internet teks & tips might be a bit confusing, it should be appreciated that the hands-on teaching is valuable.


Can't agree enough with this. I really agree with the second point. Watching someone brew makes 10 0000000000000 times more sense than reading ( for me it did anyway ). I had a good idea of what to do when i started, but going along to a Big Brew Day back in 04 sealed the deal completely. Few weeks later off i went. Funny thing is, my equipment is pretty much the same now as it was then ( except for a bigger mash tun, oh and a keggle ).

I think sometimes beginners here get bombarded with overly complex techniques, where they would probably be better off with the basics first. My .02c.

^ Ditto this one

...

In saying that, I never 'realised' I could all grain brew at home (even though I had previously been doing partial Grumpy brews for years, so was essentially 80% there) until I attended a mash brewing course with a mate at Tafe. We did get to bring home a heap of our first AG brews as a bonus, along with plenty of sampling, plus I learnt a heap of theory on brewing.

However if I knew about AHB and other brewing forums before I attended the Tafe course, I would not have needed to go on the course at all!

...And yes I previously lived a sheltered childhood. :icon_cheers:
 
Every one learns different ways.
I'd been doing really basic 3V and couldnt wrap my head around BIAB till I went to a demo day at G&G with Spills and TB showing how its done. Yep pretty basic stuff - but once I saw it in the flesh it made more sence.
Now that cost me nothing other than a couple of hours in the car and a coupole of hours out of my day at the demo. However would I have paid for it - sure. I would have paid $20odd for that kind of lesson. If it was a 2 day course with food provided, a folder of notes more theory - yeah I would have paid $200odd.

Its what your get for your money too.
I wouldnt go throwing $200 to any old member off AHB. I would want to know that that member either has won awards for their beers or done an extensive recognised course themselves in brewing.
I'd probably want to see something a little more hands on. I dont want to just watch someone brew - I want to be doing a brew myself and have someone coming around checking what im doing - makingsure my techniques that Im using are correct.

I mean seriously heaps of people go to cooking classes - no one says "you can learn every thing you need to know online from forums" (actually people probably do) But there is something about being taught in a "classroom" environment.
I do a first aid course every 2 years - I could probably learn all I need to know from the internet and books. But the fact is doing a course can be benificial.

As for just going around to a forum members house and watching them brew - often the logistics just dont work. Or many people dont feel overly comfortable in such a situation. I was a member on another forum for about 7 years before I met any one from the forum. Once I did I'll admit I got way more out of the forum (I ended up becoming the state rep for that particular forum) but sometimes its easier to "remain anonymous" behind a keyboard or even in a class room where you can ask the stupid questions without any 'peers' thinking "why the heck does someone with years of experiance need to be asking such basic questions"

Of course every one is different and going around to a fellow forum members house and watching them brew might suit.

As for joining clubs. Unless its a car club im not interested (even then Im picky) - they nearly always end up full of political bullshit or there is one tosser that shows up every meet says he's going to shit miracles and never does anything
 
As for joining clubs. Unless its a car club im not interested (even then Im picky) - they nearly always end up full of political bullshit or there is one tosser that shows up every meet says he's going to shit miracles and never does anything


Haha, our brew club is the most laid back brew club there is. Disorganised rabble, but that is the way it works best. Check out my sig, that's our motto!!. Great bunch of blokes ( and brewers ), and i know i learn a hell of a lot from our get togethers. When a hobby clug/group gets organised, that's when the ego's and bullshit starts to fly.

Mark,

IBU rabblerouser
 
^ well thats ideal - thats what our fishing club is like. Its even written in the constitution that there is a maximum of 25 members. if it gets bigger than that there has to be an extraordinary meeting to discuss (which has never happened). Works brilliantly. Get together once a month talk about the next trip for 15 minutes then everyone just socialises. But its often hard to find clubs like that.
 
Under a mushroom with the rest of the Gnomes. :lol:
Now that's the pot calling the kettle black, I've always thought Raven might of been the brewing love child of JM & GMK......... but he does AG not lambic K&K's :D
 
People sell cooking / cheese making / welding etc etc courses, why not AG Brewing?

I wouldn't attend one as I prefer to do my own research but I don't really see the problem with someone offering?
It can only be a good thing if it gets people into the hobby?
 
I've always thought Raven might of been the brewing love child of JM & GMK......... but he does AG not lambic K&K's :D

But at the case swap Raven did have a sour on tap...
 

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